Transcript
You’re listening to InSickness, a podcast about caregiving, with Allison Breininger and Justin Bajema.
Allison: Hey, Justin, how are you today?
Justin: I’m doing okay. It’s been some beautiful summer weather here. We have our long days, it seems like the sun sets at like nine o’clock at night, so it’s these beautiful, long, sunny days. And yeah, like I’ve said before, I’m overall feeling pretty good. Still.
Allison: Every time you say that, I’m like, yes!
Justin: I know, I know. It’s been remarkable. And so that’s been just a real blessing and still trying to kind of ride that out. I’m still working through some TMS to try to really drive home the benefit.
Allison: Sure.
Justin: But yeah, feeling, feeling pretty good, feeling hopeful.
Allison: Wow.
Justin: Which is a really great feeling.
Allison: Yeah. This is, and actually this will tie into something we were going to talk about today, but do you feel like in these moments, are you good at being, okay, it’s good right now?
Justin: Yes.
Allison: And holding on to that. Or are you, well, it’s good today, but tomorrow could be garbage. Do you know what I mean? How are you with that?
Justin: I think I’m doing okay with that. I think there is a kind of something learned over the years of dealing with depression and all this that when things are good, really relishing that because, you know, they may not always be that way, as frustrating or whatever that feels like. But it’s also building the memory of times when I’m not feeling super depressed as hopefully something to hold on to if and when the harder times come back as a reminder that things are not always that way.
Allison: Do you hear how healthy that all was, what you just said? That was like top notch healthy, everything you just said.
Justin: Well, putting it into practice is maybe different than verbalizing it. But yeah, that’s kind of the goal.
Allison: Wow, go you.
Justin: Thank you.
Allison: Because I could see that it would be, and this is probably my catastrophizing brain, but it’s like when something’s good, I have to work really hard to say, okay, it’s good. Okay, enjoy it. And not to be, well, it’s good right now, but how long is this going to last? Or we’re going to jinx ourselves by saying it’s good.
All of that. And so I love that you are working to be able to relish it and sort of like snapshot it to be like a little photo album for later, you know, to come back to.
So, wow, thank you for modeling that for us.
Justin: You’re welcome.
Allison: And I’m just so glad, so glad that you’re still doing well. Yeah.
Justin: Thank you.
Allison: Yeah, every time I ask, I sort of hold my breath a little bit. How’s he doing? You know, because for so long you were well, not so good. So it’s so great that you are doing well. And of course, I will be here with you if there are moments that are not great.
Justin: What about you? How are things going over there?
Allison: Oh, gosh, we are… I feel a little whirlwindy at the moment. We had a lot of things. I can’t remember what we last talked about here, but we had yet another death. And I don’t remember if I… I don’t remember where we were when I told you all that.
But Sean’s uncle passed away tragically, so we spent a week in Indiana. That was a whole thing, because it was the first time we had been back there since Sean’s mom passed away and staying at their house and all that. So that happened.
Then we got Maya through the end of the school year by her fingernails. Man, we just barely got through that. And then right as soon as school ended, the three of us flew off to Michigan.
We dropped her off at this arts camp in Michigan in the woods. And then Sean and I got to stay with my brother and his family at their lake cottage on Lake Michigan while Maya was at camp. And it was so beautiful.
I mean, you know I love Lake Superior so much or Minnesota lakes, but Lake Michigan, it’s like a close second, man. It just is oh, so pretty. And I’ve talked about this before. I’m just a better human when I’m near water. And we were right on the water, right on the water. So I could just be, oh, I want to kayak. Okay, here I go. I’m going to kayak, like, come on, really? It was dreamy. It was really dreamy.
So we had a super relaxing week, and then picked Maya up from camp, and she was really sick, and that was a bummer. And then we flew home, and now we’re home for two days.
And then tomorrow, Sean and I fly to Maine for, it’s called Camp Sunshine, which is a really fabulous camp in Maine, where they, every week of the summer, have a different sort of disease group that they support. And so this is the FA Fanconi Anemia week, and so I’m going to lead all the support groups for the caregivers. So we leave tomorrow.
So that’s a lot. It is. And in the midst of all that, when we were on vacation in Michigan, night two of like seven or eight, Sean was sort of like touching his neck, and I said, what’s going on?
and he says, I feel like my neck is swollen. And I looked, and sure enough, the whole side of his face, neck was swollen. And it was on the same side where he’s had tongue cancer, throat cancer, gum cancer, all on this one side.
All swollen. It was a Saturday night. And so fortunately, we have this amazing doctor who we have on speed dial. So I waited till the morning. It was still swollen in the morning. And I texted her some photos, and she called me back at 7 a.m. on Father’s Day Sunday morning and talked through it with me. Asked a bunch of questions, sent in a prescription. We were able to pick that up and then she said, I’m gonna check in with you every morning and night for the rest of the week. And then the moment you get off the airplane, I want you to come see me.
So that was like a miracle, right? Because otherwise, I don’t know, we may have…who knows what we would have had to do. Just knowing that she was like looking at pictures twice a day and she was checking with us and she was talking to other people and all of that was so helpful. So that was a huge part and then when we got home, racing from the airport to the doctor’s office because it was 4:30 p.m. on a Friday. And she was like, yeah, I’m going to stay. I’m going to stay and wait for you guys, even though the clinic will be closed. So that was amazing.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: So she thinks that it’s called the parotid gland, we all have them, like we have a salivary gland, but it can get all blocked up and swollen when you’ve had radiation in that part of your body. So she thinks that that’s what it is, but she still wants to run some CT scans just to be sure. But of course, we’re leaving town, so CT scans won’t happen till we’re done.
So that was just a whole thing of that just being in the background. And something that I noticed that happened in my brain, my awesome brain, is that that night, he says my whole side of my neck is swollen. And I’ve been doing a lot of advocacy work lately in the head and neck cancer community, and so I hear a lot of stories about lumps and bumps and how things start.
And so hearing him say that and then going to sleep and then thinking okay, we’re going to wait till the morning and see how it is in the morning. But my brain just automatically went to all the worst case scenarios. And so thinking about okay, this is probably cancer.
Which sounds catastrophizing except not when you’re me and this is the life that we’ve had. I have a lot of reasons to think that. So this is probably cancer.
And then what does that mean? And then my brain actually even, and I’m just going to be real honest here, like went to things like, okay, maybe this is it. Maybe this is the thing.
You know how when we had Death Doula Jane on, and she said, you’re sitting on the dock, and boats come by, and one of those boats is the one that you’re going to get on, and it’s going to be the end. And my brain was, maybe this is the boat.
And I went all the way to, okay, what’s life going to look like when Sean’s gone? How much money is in our life? And sure, what is The Negative Space going to look like? What is…my brain went boom, all the way down that path that night.
And yeah, it’s like this dress rehearsal kind of thing that my brain did. And whether that’s healthy or not, I don’t know. I don’t know that it’s one way or another.
It’s certainly good that I’m not in denial about any of it, right? I mean, would you say that this was wasted energy spent on that? But at the same time, many of those things that I was thinking about will eventually happen.
Justin: Right, yeah.
Allison: So anyway, that brings us to today’s topic. Which is anticipatory grief.
Justin: Right.
Allison: I talk about this topic a lot at different webinars that I do, and I love it because it’s the kind of thing that when people hear about it, they’re like, yeah, yeah, I’ve been having that or thinking that or doing that, and I didn’t know there was a word for it. But I think that what I was doing that night was exactly that.
I was anticipating the grief that I am going to feel. I was anticipating this thing that may not happen. Some of those parts may not happen. Some of them will, right?
Justin: Right.
Allison: And I was already grieving these things that haven’t happened yet. Which is kind of how it’s defined, right? We think about it as grieving someone’s death, but it can also be grieving other things when we think, that’s probably not going to happen, and I’m sad about that.
Or that probably is going to happen, and I’m sad about that. So it’s sort of like grieving future things before they happen.
Is this a term that you… Do you have familiarity with anticipatory grief? As a term, is it something you’ve experienced?
Justin: It’s something that as a term I’m familiar with, I think probably as part of when I started trying to learn more about caregiving and connect with the caregiving community, for lack of a better term, like that’s a phrase that I came across, I think.
Allison: Okay.
Justin: And I think we touched on it briefly back in our second episode of Grief. It’s been a while since we’ve talked about grief, I think. But yeah, it’s something that I feel, and kind of in a different sense, it’s not where it hits me, isn’t with losing Sarah or Sarah dying, because her condition isn’t a terminal condition. So that’s not there as much.
But where I really feel it is because we weren’t able to build a family, to have kids, thinking to the future of being old and who’s around us, and feeling like that’s going to be a lonely time, or because I look to my grandparents who had all of their kids and grandkids, and now I see that with my parents. They have their kids, and my siblings have their kids, so it’s like this big family unit, and I like grew up with a lot of that family stuff.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And so to know that that’s not going to be the case. But I also don’t know what that time is ultimately actually going to look like, and who is going to be around us in that time. But certainly that’s where this sort of grieving the future comes into play for me.
Allison: Yeah, yeah. That’s a powerful example. Thank you for sharing that, because I think it’s true that we often just think about it in relationship to death, but it’s so much more than that.
Justin: I think too, of some other kind of examples, because I did a little reading about this before we talked about it. And if the person you’re caring for has a degenerative disease or their dementia is starting to kind of progress, it’s like you’re losing part of who they are right now. And maybe it’s not yet to the point where death is the thing that is super on your mind.
But you know, is this the last conversation I’m going to have with them where they really know who I am? Or knowing that in the future that we’re going to have these conversations and you know, mentally they’re going to be in a different place.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And that’s another whole level of loss.
Allison: It is. It is. And actually, there’s a term for that called ambiguous loss. And that, I think, relates to that where it’s like the person is still there, where you’ve lost part of them. Or sometimes ambiguous loss is related to if a person is lost at sea or in the war or whatever. They never like find the remains.
There’s never the resolution, so it’s called ambiguous loss. But I think it’s this writing on the wall thing, right? If you have this Alzheimer’s diagnosis, you kind of know that at some point you’re going to have this loss mentally, they will not be there the way they used to be.
And so knowing that, you start to grieve that beforehand, because you know it’s going to happen.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: I think somebody said to me once, a caregiver said, I think that when my husband dies, people are going to think I’m so cold-hearted because I’m not going to grieve, I’m not going to cry because I’ve spent all my time grieving now. And I was like, oh, friend, I have bad news. Look, it’s unfortunately, it’s not like one or the other. You grieve so much now that afterwards you’re just like, well, I did that.
Justin: Right, exactly.
Allison: It’s not like we have like a grief quota, right? It’s like we often do both.
Justin: Right.
Allison: Because it’s a grieving in a different way. We’re future grieving. But that doesn’t mean that the loss itself or the moment itself is still not hard.
It’s just that we have this little crystal ball a little bit. I think I’ve been thinking a lot about this because, as I mentioned, Sean’s uncle died really unexpectedly and tragically in an accident, versus Sean’s mom, who had this cancer diagnosis, and we sort of saw it coming far down the road, but then also they were, okay, now we’ve got about some weeks left, now we’ve got some days left.
And so, how those are different. And I think that there’s good and bad in both, right? Of course, so tragic that his uncle just like poof, like gone.
But also, like, there wasn’t any of this, the thinking about it and the worry. And so I’m not saying one is right and one is wrong. I’m just saying that they’re different and that when we are in these chronic illness scenarios, we can see this path in a way that others cannot or others maybe don’t imagine because it’s not in their forefront, you know.
Justin: Yeah, I was thinking about that. Like you said, if I have all of this anticipatory grief, is that going to lessen the grief after the fact? And like you said, that’s not how it works.
And what I do wonder, though, if as you’re feeling this anticipatory grief, this feeling what’s coming, if that is a time that you can use, and not that you have to make every experience you’re going through somehow productive, but if you can get familiar with your grief or get to know your grief, learn how to give your grief space in your boardroom, like we talk about, if that will help your grieving process after the fact. What are your thoughts on that?
Allison: I think anything we can do to better understand what our triggers are and what our responses are and what works for us, all of that is good practice. So even thinking about, okay, when this thing happens, that sort of sets me off, or when I am feeling grief, I feel it here in my body or it shows up in this way. That can help us sort of navigate those situations and those scenarios the more we do it, but also to be, okay, when this happened and I felt this way, what ended up eventually being feeling supportive was dot, dot, dot, right?
So with any of our emotions, it’s just like the more we dig into it, I think, the more equipped we’re going to be. And so even though grief is going to show up potentially differently and might feel different or there might be a different trigger or whatever, we’re just going to be smarter about and more attuned to the way our bodies and our emotions work if we start that now.
Justin: Right.
Allison: When I think about triggers, the thing is that they are like all these day-to-day things that we probably don’t think about when we think about it. That’s pretty great. So it could be for you potentially, maybe it’s like going to a baby shower.
Or a Father’s Day thing or something like that. You might be, okay, we have processed this part, but then you haven’t maybe processed seeing the grandparents at the baby shower. And so maybe seeing the grandparents at the baby shower all of a sudden is like this knife to the gut kind of moment for you.
I know that for us sometimes seeing a college graduation announcement, or a wedding thing, will he be here for when Maya goes through those things?
So it’s like this happy thing where you’re going to the graduation party and you’re, here we go. And then all of a sudden you’re, why do I feel panicked or crying or this or that? So it’s to understand and be aware of oh, that’s because I’m seeing the dad of this graduate.
And part of my brain is thinking, what if our graduation party looks different?
Justin: Right.
Allison: So it’s being aware of those things, right? And then also giving ourselves grace. So the more we can understand some of those triggers, the more we can sort of prepare ourselves to ask, do I want to go to that graduation party?
Justin: Yeah.
Allisoon: Or I can think, what are the things that I can do before, during, or after that might be supportive of me so that I can still go to the graduation party? Or maybe it’s just being aware that I’m going to go to this, and these feelings might come up. That’s okay. They’re welcome.
Because sometimes at least knowing it, as opposed to being at this random party and thinking, why do I feel really strange right now? But at least if we know it.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: There was a caregiver I was talking to once who was about our age, married, and he said he was riding his bike, and he saw this elderly couple walking hand in hand. And he saw them, and his brain went, that’s not going to be me and my wife. And it just totally threw him for a loop.
And he said it took him two or three days to get out of the funk that just seeing that couple did. And of course, he had no way of knowing that he was going to see this couple. He couldn’t have avoided that.
But I think that the giving ourselves the grace of seeing those things, whereas for some people it would be, look at that, look, that’s going to be us someday, right? That can feel the opposite for some of us. And so just to be aware of, I saw this, I’m feeling like this, here’s why.
It makes perfect sense that I feel like this. It’s okay that I feel like this. And then maybe are there some things that I can do to help myself process through that. Because it’s not like never leave the house again. But what is it that we can do?
Justin: So I kind of wonder, you mentioned these various triggers potentially that can set off this anticipatory grief. And as you learn to identify those, where is the balance between I don’t want to feel this grief and avoiding those triggers versus this is something that I need to process? And there’s probably not an easy answer for that.
But it’s a tough thing, because it’s painful to look ahead and not see the future that you thought or see a future that’s so different from everyone else. And that’s not a fun place to be, but also, I don’t think avoiding it is going to be beneficial either. And certainly for me, it’s knowing that. You mentioned Father’s Day, and it’s not the same every year, some years it doesn’t feel like it hits as hard, some years it really feels like it hits hard.
And so maybe stay off social media that day, don’t do that. And I know that he holidays can be hard too. And just kind of having that awareness can be helpful.
Allison: Yeah, yeah.
Justin: I wonder too about where the balance is, or there’s this tension between I am grieving this future that I won’t have and living the moment that I’m in right now.
Allison: Yeah, exactly.
Justin: And I have this time with my person now, and I want to fully be present for that and cherish every bit of that that I have right now. But also, all of these things are reminding me of a future that is deeply painful. And how do you navigate that?
Because I think that both of those things are important things to be present for, whether it’s the moment you’re in versus the grief. And one of those is probably a lot more enjoyable to be with. But yeah, we can’t avoid the grief, but we also don’t want to lose ourselves in that and miss the time that we have.
Allison: Yeah, absolutely. And so I always think of it as almost like a game of tug of war, right? It is this tension of being pulled, and you said one of those is more enjoyable, but sometimes it isn’t if it’s almost like fake. If it’s just everything’s fine, everything’s fine, everything’s going to be fine. It’s not really enjoyable.
And so I think of it as like sort of this pull between you want to have hope and you also want to have acceptance. You don’t want to be so blinded by hope that when something happens, you’re like, wait, what? I was not prepared for this. But then you also don’t want to be so in your acceptance that everything’s terrible and nothing’s ever going to happen.
So that’s one sort of pull that I see. And another is sort of enjoying the moment, like you said, versus anticipating the loss. And that can feel like a lot of pressure to be, okay, if he has a shorter lifespan, we have to enjoy every single minute.
You know, I see all these things of people who say I’m doing my bucket list and I’m living my life to the fullest. So sometimes I say, Sean, do you want this? He says, oh, that sounds like a lot of work.
And I was, exactly. Just checking, just checking to make sure. And so I think we can do both.
I think the healthy thing is maybe the “yes and…” And what you said this morning when we first started talking about almost taking the mental pictures of the times when it is good, so that when a time is hard, you’ve got that photo album, that proverbial photo album to look back on. So I think it’s both.
I mean, was that me that night when my brain went all the way down the path. Was I not trusting? Was I giving up hope?
No, not necessarily, because there’s part of my brain that’s, this is maybe nothing, and there’s still lots of things that can be done. But I think letting my brain go there is a healthy thing because I feel like it’s got to go there, too. If it goes there and it stays there, I think that’s where it’s a problem.
And so I think it’s how can we float back and forth and visit both sides as we need to and have a healthy dose of each and not get stuck in one or the other? And certainly for some people their coping mechanism is blindfolds on and I’m only going to be in hope and I’m not going to think about what this says and I’m not going to look at the research and I’m not going to… And if that feels okay to you and that feels like what you need, okay, right, I’m not going to be, well, look at the real facts here, man.
But I guess I would just ask what it is that’s putting you in that space. Is it that you feel like you’re not allowed to think about the hard things? Have you just been bright-sided so much?
Do you feel like those feelings there and you’re just shoving them down? What’s the reason for only staying on the one side of the rope and not ever letting yourself go to the other? That’s something I would wonder.
Justin: Yeah. So I’m just curious. That night when you went down that path, how did that feel the next day? Was it, I don’t know, this doesn’t feel like the right word, but like a healthy exercise or something, to have thought through all of that, or was there the hangover from feeling all of that grief? Did that stick around, or how did that…
Allison: Yeah, good question. I think that… I think that in a weird way, I went there in sort of a cold, detached way. It was just, okay, well, this might be the ship, this might be it, and then life will look like this, and then this will probably happen, and then… It was sort of just this, disembodied, detached from emotion, sort of logistical, these are the next steps that might happen.
Justin: Right.
Allison: And so it didn’t feel like this grief in that emotional sort of way. It was more like a logistical grief. So I don’t know if it helped my brain to paint to the worst-case scenario, because then, when it wasn’t the worst-case scenario, it was, okay, cool, I’ve prepared for that.
But what I realized is that the other times he has had these diagnoses, it was almost immediate…I’m in the room, we look at the scope, we see the stuff in his throat, we’re, oh crap, right? We see the thing on his tongue, and we’re, oh crap, you know? Whereas this was sort of in between. We’ve got swelling, it could be a thing, it could maybe not be a thing, we’re not really sure. And so I think that it’s interesting that then my brain went, doot, doot, doot, doot. Even though it wasn’t sure, but it was more like, well, I’m going to prepare us just to be sure. I’m going to prepare us for this worst case scenario kind of thing.
Justin: Yeah. I just want to pause a minute. You’ve kind of talked about some pretty heavy stuff that you live with.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And I just want to acknowledge that and just say that I’m sorry that that’s the reality that you live in.
Allison: Thank you.
Justin: That must be really hard.
Allison: Yeah. Thank you. I know it’s interesting when I find myself saying some of these things so nonchalantly.
Justin: Right.
Allison: Because it’s just what we do and what we say and oh yeah, well, he’s far past the median age of death, which was 32, and now he’s 44.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And so it’s weird that I’ve had practice saying these things nonchalantly. And so I appreciate you taking the space to be like, whoa. You know, because it’s true.That’s not what most people are lying in bed thinking about. But that is part of our reality.
And so thank you for taking the space to acknowledge that. Because yeah, it’s a lot.
Justin: It is.
Allison: Yeah. It is. Yeah.
And I think, you know, a question I have for all of us is, where does it show up in our bodies? And so with that question, I think an interesting thing is that I wonder if, for me, it doesn’t. If it’s like a kind of shut off.
Like a detached disassociation. Not disassociation, because I think that’s more mental, because I feel like mentally I’m there, but it’s not like panic or sadness or whatever. It’s just sort of more like, I just go into almost like crisis mode in my brain, and I’m like, okay, here’s the next thing that’s going to happen.
Justin: That’s a mode that your brain is used to. There’s a space your brain knows how to exist in.
Allison: That pathway is real dug in. It’s a lot of practice.
So I think that, yeah, there’s that kind of thing. And another example of a trigger is that sometimes a new diagnosis of some sort, after we’ve been in a pretty quiet season. And so a new diagnosis is also a thing that can trigger you back into reality of, oh, no, this is still a thing.
And also, I think, you know, we’ve gone to a lot of funerals lately.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And the most recent one we went to was a person who died of Fanconi Anemia, who was just three years older than him. Lives here in the Twin Cities.
And that’s another thing, to go to a person’s funeral and then be watching and thinking okay, well, when it’s…
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Okay, so then there’s the husband. So then in this case, would that be me? And why would I be standing there?
It’s like, again, this dress rehearsal that I think that people might do if they go to a 90 year old’s funeral and be, oh, I wonder what I’ll be like, but this feels really different when you can see something that’s going to be so similar. And it’s a dress rehearsal of oh, what’s his gonna look like? Oh, what a terrible sentence…
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: …you know, to be thinking that. And I want us to think that it’s healthy to think it and to not just be, it’s fine, it’s fine, it’s fine. He’s gonna beat all the odds and it’ll be fine. Because that feels not necessarily like the healthiest either.
The other thing I wonder about with anticipatory grief is talking with our people about it.
Because we’re thinking and we’re talking about death here. I think about the grieving of that. But I have led anticipatory grief sessions for caregivers and had the patients themselves come and say, I am anticipating my own, I’m already grieving my own death. I know that I will die young, and I’m grieving that.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Like with you and the situation you’ve talked about, about not having the kids and the grandkids around. Is that something that you and Sarah have talked about and that you have said, this is something I’m grieving? Is that a conversation the two of you have had?
Justin: Yeah, absolutely. It’s something we’ve talked about and talk about a lot. Well, not a lot, but it’s a familiar conversation, because we both feel that.
And because it’s not a terminal condition that she has, we don’t have that conversation about her death. And so it feels like what we’re talking about would maybe be easier because it’s a shared experience that we’re both going through, that is kind of the same for us.
And going back to the Ring Theory, I think it’s probably healthy to, as you said, talk to your person about this anticipatory grief. And that could be navigating just to be kind of sensitive to where are you in the ring with them, or in the first ring out, and how to talk about it. And that’s going to depend on your relationship. I don’t know if that’s easier if they are your spouse, because you are each other’s person. And there’s that, versus if it’s a parent or something like that, how that changes it.
But I think that grief in general can feel really lonely.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And knowing that someone else in the situation is also going through that–not that it makes it easier, but it feels better to know that it’s not something that you’re just in isolation feeling.
Allison: Yeah. Well, I think in some situations, it’s like the elephant in the room that nobody’s talking about.
Justin: True.
Allison: So for you and Sarah, I can see that you’re sort of both in it together, and you’re, yep, this is a thing that’s equally impacting the two of us. Whereas in a situation like mine, it feels different, because obviously he’s anticipating his and I’m not. And I think for some people, they’re like, well, I don’t want to put that extra burden on my person and make them feel bad that their impending death makes me feel sad.
We’ve talked a lot this year about death and how we don’t talk about death in our culture. And so I wonder how it might be a relief, in a way, for the person themselves to have someone say, do you feel anticipatory grief about your own death?
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And they probably don’t have many spaces where people let them say that. So yeah, I’m picturing the rings, and are we hopping back and forth? Is it okay to say, now you get a time, and I’m going to come for you, as you talk about how it feels to you, but then I’m going to hop in the middle, and then you’re going to come for me, as I talk about how I feel.
I hear this a lot from people who say, I don’t feel like I can put that on my person. I feel like it’s going to stress them out, or it’s going to make them feel guilty, or it’s going to whatever. So if you feel like that’s the case for you, listener, you know, certainly then just find somebody else, right?
That’s just so that you have a space where you can say, this is how I’m feeling. You know, somebody else who’s going to get it, who’s not going to bright side you. And whether that’s reaching out to one of us or having a session with me or another safe person in your life, but just a place so that it’s not just sitting there.
And maybe it’s another, let’s say, another family member who’s also feeling some anticipatory grief around the same person. And so maybe you could be in that circle together. Because you kind of understand that. So that’s another way to think about it.
But that was kind of a big deal for me to say out loud, here’s where my brain went. I was thinking, how much do we have in life insurance? I was like literally thinking those things and like, oh crap, you know? And there’s some power, I think, in a way in like saying it out loud and then not just keeping that to myself and just knowing that I have this safe person with you and our listening audience to share that with.
Justin: Right. So I was thinking you brought something up with tying this to supporters a little bit, and that is, it’s never a time to bright side.
Allison: Never.
Justin: This is absolutely not something to bright side someone on, to say that, well, at least you still have the time with them now. Give them, validate what they’re feeling. This is a time to absolutely validate the grief that they’re feeling now and not to try to minimize that or tell them, now is not the time to feel that.
Allison: Yep. I feel like we need t-shirts. We need billboards. We need them, just because I feel like every time we say, what should we tell supporters? It’s almost always, don’t bright side them.
Justin: Right. Yeah.
Allison: Don’t bright side them. Let them, don’t dismiss them, acknowledge their feelings and don’t bright side them. But you’re right, especially with this.
Justin: Right.
Allison: And of course, because if the listener, this is uncomfortable. I mean, what I shared with you earlier, that it’s an uncomfortable thing for you to hear me say.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And I can imagine that the listener feels uncomfortable and then just wants to say, well, but you didn’t have to do that. Nope, nope. Our brains are already doing that. Like it’s already, you know, we’re fine in the bright sided department.
Justin: So I think, yes, we know that they shouldn’t bright side. What can they do?
Allison: One thing I think is to sort of think in advance about what some triggers could be now that you’ve heard us talk about them today. So let’s say you’re hosting a graduation party, right? Be aware of how that might be impacting the people who are coming to your party.
Justin: Right.
Allison: Or a baby shower or whatever, right? And, you know, just sort of think through your guest list and think, who might this be hard for today? And give them some grace.
So if you have a friend who says, I’m sorry, I’m not able to attend, even if they don’t say why, give them some grace to be like, no problem, thanks for letting me know. Or if they have to leave early or if they’re sitting in the corner or if they’re whatever, I know it feels like, well, this is our graduation party. It’s all about us.
Yes. And think about your friends who are coming to these events. And whether you’re the host or you’re just attending also, or maybe you know this about a friend and you could say, do you want to go to this together? And that way, if you want to leave, we can leave or, you know, just think about what those triggers might be.
Or like Father’s Day, I thought about it and then I forgot. I’m sorry, because we were dealing with stuff. But I was almost going to text you. Does that count?
Justin: Yeah, it does. It does.
Allison: Was going to text you on Father’s Day, and just say, hey, I wonder if this day might bring up some things for you, and I just want you to know I’m thinking of you. No need to respond. So there’s my text a week later.
Justin: No, I do appreciate that for sure.
Another thing maybe, as you’re talking about events and guest lists and stuff like that is just acknowledging, as you’re saying goodbye or when you talk to them when they arrive or something, saying thank you for coming.I know that this may have been really hard for you. Or just an acknowledgement that it is potentially a difficult thing. And that you see that and are aware of their life situation and some of the challenges.
Allison: And that you appreciate the effort that they put in. That this wasn’t just, I’m going to a graduation party on Sunday. No, this was sort of emotionally taxing for them, you know?
And certainly don’t assume, right? But if it’s a more obvious kind of thing, I think that’s huge.
And I think even aside from the anticipatory grief thing, I think as a caregiver, getting you and your person to an event is a big deal.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And so being acknowledged and thanked for that to say like, hey, I’m sure that it was not easy to get out of the house and to get here. And we just really appreciate that you took the time and the energy to be here. So thank you.
You know, that goes a long way.
Justin: For sure.
Allison: Yeah. Yeah. So I think that sort of bottom line, like grief comes in a lot of different ways.
You know, we talked way back about grieving things from the past, right? Or things that we thought were going to happen that aren’t happening. We’ve talked about grief at the holidays.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And it’s a special kind, right? And some people might think this is a waste of energy, to ask why are you grieving something that hasn’t even happened? But I don’t see it that way.
I think I see it as healthy, our brains sort of practicing in a way, and doing a little dress rehearsal for what, something that might come. And guess what? If we are proven wrong, fabulous.
Justin: Right.
Allison: Right? Great. And if we’re not, okay, we’re prepared.
So yes, we can be pulled with the tug of war kind of thing. And I think just to some days be in hope and some days be in acceptance, and just to kind of make sure we have our foot in both worlds and don’t get too stuck in either side, but that we’re able to really find the balance there.
Justin: And I think just recognizing that these are very dynamic situations, as far as your feelings and emotions go, and you feel one thing one day, you may swing the other way the next day, and that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong that that’s what’s happening within you.
That’s 100% natural that you’re bouncing around all over that way, feeling tension between all of these different directions. And I think, too, that, as we’ve talked about a lot lately with your boardroom and the emotions and not ignoring them, I think if grief is popping up, don’t ignore it.
And that’s not always fun. But I think it’s healthy to let yourself feel the things that are coming up and not just ignore them.
Justin: Because as you’ve mentioned a number of times, sometimes our emotions pair up together. So it might be anger or sadness or irritability or something. And then once we go into the boardroom, we’re, oh, you’re just speaking on behalf of grief there, aren’t you?
Grief is kind of hidden in the background, but really it’s coming out as irritability. So to use that, just going into the boardroom, all right, mic’s open, who wants to talk and seeing if grief is around and if grief is hanging out by himself or if grief is showing up with a friend or whatever that is, and never to be, grief, what are you doing here? Everything’s fine right now, you know, but to realize that we can start grieving things before they happen.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: So, yeah. All right. Thank you for this powerful conversation.
Justin: Yeah, thank you for sharing your experience.
Allison: Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right. And we will get a support group on the books so that we can all talk about this as a group because I think this would be a good one to talk about with others as well. So watch for that.
All right. Thanks, friend. I’ll see you soon.
Justin: Okay.
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