Transcript
You’re listening to In Sickness, a podcast about caregiving, with Allison Breininger and Justin Bajema.
Justin: Hey Allison, how you doing?
Allison: Good morning, Justin, how are you?
Justin: Doing okay. It’s been an overall an all right week. I was able to actually last weekend get away for the weekend and have a little kind of outing.
Allison: Nice.
Justin: Which was spectacular.
Allison: Who’d you go with?
Justin: I just went on my own.
Allison: Oh, that’s awesome.
Justin: One of my pandemic or I guess the pandemic hobby that I’ve picked up is birding.
Allison: Oh, I didn’t realize you didn’t do that before the pandemic.
Justin: Not really. It was early on, there were all the articles about how to deal with isolation.
Allison: Right.
Justin: And there was an article I read from some hermit who lives in the Rockies or something. And his advice was to find something and keep track of it, like whether that’s rainfall or daily temperature or something. So I just started, I had a notebook and I just wrote down the different birds I saw in the yard.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And it kind of like spiraled from there into this like going out, finding birds around here. And so this was a, I had an opportunity to go on a boat trip out like 25, 30 miles out into the open ocean to see birds. And these are birds that like only come to land to like raise their young, they just live out at sea. So it’s like the only way to go see these birds. And so it was spent the night out of town. So it was an early morning and it was just like a gorgeous day. It was, you know, we had dolphins swimming alongside the boat for hours.
Allison: Seriously.
Justin: But like everything was kind of like handled, like they were keeping track of what we were seeing. They were pointing stuff out and helping you identify stuff. I didn’t have any cell service. We were in the middle of nowhere out in the ocean. And it was just, you know, it was just me. And it was, there was just this like really freeing moment where like mentally like any like of that normal mental load that we’re carrying like is just, was just gone. And it was just like, they’re enjoying like very much like in the moment. And it was just this like fantastic, just great day.
Allison: So you couldn’t check in. Nobody can get you if they needed to.
Justin: Right.
Allison: You weren’t, didn’t have to worry about anybody else.
Justin: Yep.
Allison: Just you.
Justin: Just me.
Allison: Oh my gosh, that sounds amazing. How long did that last? How long did that, did that like beauty, did it hold over? I mean, the boat trip lasted hours. But like, do you feel like as soon as you got back to land and you had cell service, like it like came back? You know what I mean?
Justin: Yeah, it wasn’t like a switch like that. There was definitely some like momentum from that feeling. And like I, over the week, I found myself kind of like going back to it and kind of like remembering it and kind of like feeling a little bit of that. And it’s, you know, that’s not to say that being gone for a day and a half, like once I got home, there was stuff to catch up on.
Allison: For sure.
Justin: You know, back into things, but yeah, it’s had a little bit of staying power, which I think has been good. And it’s, just to know that like experiences like that are still possible.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: I think when things get really rough and hard again, yeah, just knowing that like you’re not stuck always feeling that way. I think it’s a really powerful reminder.
Allison: Yes. You know, it’s funny, we were with my parents earlier and we were talking about years ago, my parents had taken, my mom and Sean and Maya went to this arboretum, and there were these beautiful flowers and like the trees were all blooming, and my mom said it was classic, that my mom spent the time reading all the plaques and learning all the things about the trees. Sean spent his time like communing with the trees and the ways that he does in a very meditative way.
Allison: And Maya laid on her back and just like stared up and let the petals fall on her. And how they were saying it was like classic for each, like that’s very much each of them. And if my dad had been there, he would have been planning lunch. And I was thinking about like, nobody said like, what would have happened if Allison was there? But what I thought was if I had been there, I would have been like checking on everybody.
Justin: Right.
Allison: You know, like I would have been like, is Sean okay? Is he tired? Is Maya this? Is my mom mad? Cause she wants to go a little further walk. You know, is my dad hungry? So anyway, it just makes me think when you said you were on this boat, like you didn’t have to take care of anybody. And I just think like, cool, that’s a nice sentence.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: I don’t know that one, you know, but I’m glad. The point is, I’m glad that you had that. Cause I think that for both of us in our lives, like we’re often the ones like watching and vigilant and caring, you know, all those things. So I’m really glad you had that. Sounds magical. The dolphins, man.
Justin: Yeah, the dolphins were pretty magical. Yeah.
Allison: I think I live in the wrong part of the country. We have loons here. Yeah, I suppose.
Justin: What about you? How’s your week been going?
Allison: I actually feel pretty good today.
Justin: That’s great.
Allison: Which should be a surprise, but it has been. I think I have just been so, so tired. I think partly almost since I left my job, which was a fantastic decision that I do not regret one bit. But what I’m realizing is that when I was working 40 hours a week, plus caregiving, plus parenting, plus trying to do negative space on the side, I mean, there was just not a moment of downtime.
Justin: Right.
Allison: And I was just on high drive all the time. And I think that in the last, what’s it been now, like eight, nine weeks, I’ve had time and I’ve had space. And I feel like suddenly, like the feelings that I had not felt for all the years are like, hey, hey, we got some time now.
Allison: We’d like to be, hello, we’re here too. And so I think that like my nervous system for the last two months has just felt like frayed. Like I just keep picturing like a little like short circuit system
Justin: Just like sparks kind of flying.
Allison: Like little, little wires, you’re like, you know, because then I, which is frustrating because I should feel amazing because I have so much free time. But instead I realized that I was just in like overdrive.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And I never felt, never let myself feel the feelings, never let myself relax, never let any of those things happen. And now that I do have more time in space, which is amazing. I’m feeling it all.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And the sort of the effects of all of those years are sort of like manifesting themselves physically as well. I think physically and emotionally. So I think emotionally, I would say that I’ve felt more like panicky and stuff like that in the last couple of months, not always for particular reasons, but again, just because like my body’s like, oh, good, oh, good, we can finally show up now.
Allison: And then physically, just like so tired. I heard a caregiver the other day use the phrase, which is now my new favorite phrase, perennial exhaustion. I was like, oh, yes, yes.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Yep, that sounds good. You know, and so we were talking about caregiver burnout, and I think that’s sort of a buzz phrase that people use, but I was wondering if today we could talk about, because I think there’s a lot of misconceptions and a lot of misplaced blame there and all kinds of stuff. And so I thought maybe you and I today could sort of dig into, like, what does that phrase mean for us?
Allison: How has that shown up for us? So when you hear caregiver burnout, like, what has that meant for you? Or are you like a unicorn and you just feel fine all the time?
Justin: Oh, no, I’ve been… I know that at various points, I have been extremely burned out. I currently, I think, I’ve been feeling increasingly burned out. I think over the last year or I guess two-ish, it’s kind of been the pandemic that’s kind of been the push over the edge, as it were, a little bit into that. But yeah, when Sarah was at her worst in bed all the time and there was just so much more that I was doing, yeah, it was just like internally just running ragged and just feeling frazzled and exhausted and getting downtime and not having the energy or desire to kind of do anything with that. And so I think kind of I went through that kind of chapter of being pretty burned out.
Justin: I think then coming here with her parents, getting some additional help and kind of a change in the situation there, I think that helped alleviate some of that. And now that doesn’t mean that all of the stresses and everything have disappeared. And so they’ve still been buzzing around in the background. And now with living through this pandemic and a whole other range of things to be concerned about more risk calculations to do and all of that has just kind of been, yeah, pushing pretty hard against that.
Allison: For sure. I mean, I think that what you’re hearing is that a lot of people in the world are pretty burned out right now.
Justin: Absolutely.
Allison: And I think that they’re getting a little glimpse at this, right? And there’s a lot of things being written about how our bodies are not meant to be in this fight, flight, freeze mode for long periods of time.
Justin: Right.
Allison: Like that is like, they always say, the saber-tooth tiger is coming, and so our body reacts, right? But that’s meant to be for a short amount of time. And so people are talking about that more because of with the pandemic, we’ve been in this for like, what, a year and a half, two years now?
Allison: I love the other day I saw, weren’t we so cute when we had our episode that was called As We Emerge from the Pandemic? Wasn’t that cute?
Justin: Cute.
Allison: Anyway, that a lot of people are feeling this because we’ve been in that for a long time. But I think that is shining the light on like, you and I as chronic illness caregivers, we have been in this fight flight freeze for me for 11 years.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Right, I have been on, I have been on alert. There are moments where I’m like, start to relax. But even in the moment when I’m relaxing, or I’m like, things are going okay. I always am like, don’t even say that out loud, Breininger, don’t do it. Like the moment you say things are okay, like something’s gonna happen. And our bodies are not meant for that. And so I think like, I just have been thinking a lot about my nervous system.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And like the impact that that has had on my nervous system to be in that like alert mode. And thing, not to be so depressing, but with chronic illness, like there isn’t really an end in sight.
Justin: Right.
Allison: You know, like there isn’t, like we talked about a different time about like, the long term, the long haul of this. Like it, even the other day, so side note that we can get into more, but I started therapy, ta-da, finally. You know, we talked about how I need to do that, and I finally did.
Allison: And she was saying to me one day, like, you are safe, you are safe in this moment. And I was like, you know what, BS, like I don’t, like my body is like, I don’t believe you. Like even if in this moment, things are okay, three minutes from now, everything could fall apart. And I know that because it has multiple times. So I’m starting to realize that my body and my nervous system are like, you’re not safe. You’re not safe. And you’re never gonna be safe. But then that’s scary to think about, like if it’s a chronic illness, then it’s not going away. How, what, how do we proceed?
Justin: Right.
Allison: With this little frazzled nervous system of mine, you know?
Justin: Yeah, that’s what I think is really tough about it, because it kind of, like when you talk about caregiver burnout, like it kind of feels like this sort of inevitable thing, just by the nature of caregiving being something that is so demanding. And that there is, for a lot of people, there’s not really breaks.
Allison: Right.
Justin: And so you, like you’ve described so well there, just being, your nervous system is just all on in that fight, flight, freeze mode. And so like, before this morning, I was like, okay, we’re going to talk about Burnout, some of this stuff. So I searched, you know, caregiver burnout, see what kind of, you know, inspiration.
Allison: Oh man, what did the Google tell you?
Justin: Comes up. And you know, the first couple things, you know, they were fairly, I mean, I think they were fine, mostly, but there was, you know, phrases like, burnout happens when caregivers don’t ask for help, or when, you know, they don’t do this. And it’s, boy, that really, really bugs me.
Allison: I’m having, like, a visceral reaction to that phrase.
Justin: Right, because, like, we’ve talked about numerous times, like, there are enormous, like, systemic issues that put such great burdens on caregivers. And, like, all of those things are happening, and it’s not that you, as a caregiver, are not asking for enough help, and you’re not, you know, doing enough self-care. Like, it’s, if you get burned out because you’re a caregiver, like, it’s not your fault.
Allison: Right.
Justin: And I think that, like, that would be a real helpful way to kind of lead off a lot of those articles. Just with some compassion. Because, like, this is real hard. And, like, I wish it weren’t the case that, like, all signs point to, at some point, you’re gonna feel burned out. You’re gonna experience this. And I wish that I had a, like, real succinct, kind of, like, plan or solution to, like, when you do, this is how to get through it and get out of it.
Allison: Right, right.
Justin: But, you know, I think it’s important just to start from, like, you didn’t put yourself in this position as a caregiver.
Allison: Right.
Justin: There are a lot of things going against you, like, that you have no control over. That have brought you to this place.
Allison: Mm-hmm. You know, we talk so much about people, like, adding things to our to-do list. Like, when you say, like, take care of yourself, like, that adds to my to-do list.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: But the phrase that you quoted.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Is worse than adding to your to-do list. It’s adding blame. Like, you did this. So I just want to say, I feel like, you know, I call myself a caregiver ninja. Right? I’ve been doing this a long time.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: I feel I’m super well resourced. I have an amazing community. You know, I’ve got all the things stacked in my favor.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Allison: And I’m still burnt out. Right. And so I just want to say that, like, like you said, it’s, I mean, it’s hard to say that it’s inevitable, but I mean, it’s kind of part of the gig that it’s gonna happen. And, you know, I think we could talk about, like, ways around that and whatever, but I just want people to know that, like, I delegate the heck out of stuff. I, you know what I mean? I understand all the things.
Allison: And I’m still burnt out. Like, it’s not the kind of thing where, like, if only I was a better caregiver, if only I was this, if only I wouldn’t be burnt out. Nope. It’s a hard, it’s a really hard job for which you are likely untrained and unpaid and unsupported. And it’s typically on top of your other employment, and you might have other creatures or humans in your house that you’re caring for. You know what I mean?
Allison: All the things, right? And so, I’m getting worked up. And I think too, you know, last time we talked about systems, I mean, this is a systemic issue as well, that we know that care is like the backbone of our society, and yet like very rarely acknowledged or supported.
Allison: And so, yeah, I’ll jump off my little soapbox maybe. But I think, so let’s go back for a second. So when you think about burnout, do you, like I think when I thought about it before, before this sort of recent nervous system thing, I think I had thought more about like being tired, or like you don’t get to sleep as much, or a lot of people have to do a lot of physical things like transfer their person or that kind of thing.
Allison: And I think I’m starting to realize more like the combination of like it’s a physical thing and it’s like a mental health thing and that they both impact each other. Right, when you’re physically exhausted and all these things, that impacts your mental health. When your mental health is struggling, that impacts your physical health, right?
Allison: So are you able to think about like in the times that you have been, and maybe that’s now, or maybe that’s previously, when you feel like you’ve been burned out? Like, and not that I don’t really want to separate these two, because I think it’s important for us to think about them together, but for you to think about like what parts of you, or what was leading to it, or what, do you know what I mean? Was it more of the thinking? Was it more of the physical? You know what I mean?
Justin: Yeah, I think for me, it’s been the like mental kind of stuff. And I read someone’s definition of burnout recently, and it was, and this wasn’t in the context of caregiving, but it was having 100 balls in the air and knowing that you’re going to drop some of them and not knowing which ones those would be and not knowing the severity of the fallout from whatever those were. And that’s life as a caregiver.
Allison: Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Justin: Right? Fewer things have resonated with me as much as that. Just like, I know that there’s things that are off my radar. I know that I’m gonna drop some things and not knowing what those things are, like I don’t know what’s gonna happen, you know? That level of stress just roots itself in your body. And I think that for me has manifested in like anxiety attacks and panic attacks and like feeling like very physically all of that anxiety and worry and all of that like concentrated, whether that’s like intense pressure in my chest or like suddenly realizing that like all of my muscles are like clenched up and just…
Allison: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Justin: And I think there have been times where, you know, I’ve existed in that extreme state for, you know, years. You know, and you know, with therapy, that’s been something, you know, at several, I think, points throughout the years of being in therapy, is like that recognition of, yeah, my nervous system is stuck in that fight or flight response, and you know, that’s kind of, I mean, that’s a first step is like, okay, yes, that’s happening, acknowledging that. And then I found that like, okay, what does that feel like?
Justin: It’s just kind of like, there’s something I’ve found with a lot of this is there is a point where I can, you know, if you’re focusing on just, okay, physically, what is this doing to my body, that that can kind of, I can still get the mental kind of break from it, if that makes sense. Like, because there is always, you know, the swirling thoughts and the like spiraling and all of that. And this is kind of, you know, more anxiety, I think, than burnout specific. They’re all tied together.
Allison: Yeah, yep.
Justin: But like, once I can kind of, like, okay, this is what it feels like, and focus on the physical side of it, I can get some of that, like, slowing in the brain and get some relief in those moments, which is helpful. It doesn’t, you know, it’s not getting to the root of it necessarily. But I think there’s, at least for me, it’s as a starting point is like, okay, this is what’s happening.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: This is what it feels like.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And just getting to some level of, okay, this is what it feels like, and this is just what it is right now.
Allison: Right.
Justin: And I think for a long time then, I was just like, there was a resignation to that, where it’s like, okay, I’m just stuck in this state, this is what it is, and this is just what life is going to be. I’m just always going to be like this. And I think that more recently, I think I’m feeling like, you know what?
Justin: Maybe it doesn’t have to be that way, and I don’t have an answer for how to not feel this anxiety and burnout and all of that, but to allow myself to believe that there is a future for me where I’m not so stressed in this crisis mode, which I think has been a powerful just kind of like mental shift.
Allison: Because I think that’s the thing about being in a chronic situation. It’s never going to get better. So even for me today to have a day where I physically feel well, like this morning I was doing yard work and I was like, oh, this feels great. Whereas recently I would have been like, I’m so tired. I can’t rake those leaves. So even to have a day, I’m trying not to question it too much about what is it about today, but even to have a day where I’m like, oh, okay.
Allison: To be like, oh, so every day I’m not going to feel like that. You know, like that feels like a lovely little glimpse of that piece. Oh, so many good things you said that I want to talk about.
Allison: One thing I think is when you said, so sort of acknowledging it, right? Acknowledging that like, yep, there’s a lot of reasons, just as being a human being in the world for the last two years, there’s a lot of reasons for our nervous systems to be fried, right? And then, yeah, caregiving on top of it. So I think acknowledging that like, yep, it’s okay. So a lot of people have said that to me recently. Of course you’re tired.
Allison: Of course you’re tired, Allison. So I think acknowledging it and naming it, and you said, I don’t know what’s the way out of it. So I’ll just say one thing that I’m starting with this therapist is I found someone who specializes in, it’s called EMDR. I don’t know what that stands for. Probably should. But it’s pretty fascinating.
Allison: And so essentially, it especially works for people who have gone through trauma, which I think is, you know, I’ve had a lot of acute, traumatic moments in my caregiving life. And so essentially, it’s helping you reprocess, because a lot of times that trauma stays, like it doesn’t sort of, I picture it as sort of like a filing cabinet, like it doesn’t file itself away, it stays fresh. So you’re constantly reliving it.
Allison: And this EMDR helps to sort of like file it away, so that it’s sort of like, oh, that’s the thing that happened, as opposed to like, the saber tooth tiger is still here, you know? So it’s, and again, I don’t understand the magic of why it works, but it’s something about like getting the two sides of your brain to talk to each other. And so you sort of reprocess in a moment.
Allison: And while you’re doing that, either your eyes are going back and forth, left to right, or you’re tapping on your left side and your right side. And something about doing that action that like activates the two sides of your brain and then picturing the moment or reliving the moment, reprocessing it, helps it to like shelve it down.
Justin: That’s super interesting.
Allison: It’s fascinating. So like I did one with a, like where I got to picture a moment and then we did this tapping thing. And it was as if the more we did it, it was like the color, the intensity of that moment got more dull.
Justin: Wow.
Allison: It was like someone like turned down the dial. So at the beginning, she’s like, think about that moment, zero to 10, how intense is it? I was like eight. By the end, it was like a three. In like, I don’t know, 15 minutes.
Justin: Huh.
Allison: Yes. So I don’t know how it works. But very cool.
Justin: That is.
Allison: So I think, so that’s one thing that I’m doing. Another thing I’m looking into a lot of, and you know how social media, as soon as you Google something now, like everything I see is about like, your nervous system is fried and trauma and all of that. So is learning about like, it’s called, I think the polyvagal nerve, polyvagal something. And essentially, it’s like this whole thing, it’s like your whole nervous system. And so just simple things, like they said, when you think the tiger’s coming, you don’t take a deep breath. Like you’re like, right, you’re like taking these. And so easy things like sighing or like the bumblebee breathing where you’re like, you know, like that with your lips.
Justin: Okay.
Allison: Or deep, deep, deep breath, like slow, long breaths. Tell your nervous system like, hey, guess what? Like right now, you can take a deep breath because you are safe right now. So doing those longer breaths, like talks to your nervous system. So I’m still trying to get my brain because the thing about that I have realized is with that safety thing, is like I need some kind of phrase that is like, you are safe right now because I feel like you are safe period doesn’t work for me right now because I’m like, I mean, cool, but like three minutes from now, I might not be, you know? So I’m trying to like at least build in these like micro moments of like, you know, so that even, so my nervous system can have moments of, you’re safe right now.
Allison: You know what I mean? The thing that’s been interesting with that too, that remind, I want to go back to what you said about the balls in the air, is that part of that, she was trying to get me to say, well, like what’s some phrase, some negative phrase about yourself that we can like undo? And I realized like I don’t feel, like I have a pretty healthy self image or whatever, that I don’t feel like, oh, this is all my fault.
Allison: I feel like it’s like my situation has doomed us, right? So when you said the thing about the balls in the air and like, I must have dropped a ball. When I picture that, at least I personally am not like, I dropped the ball. I’m just like, those balls are up there and at any minute, they’re going to come crashing down on us. You know what I mean? I think there’s probably some of like, did I mess up with the ball? But for me, it’s more like, and I feel like that feels even worse. Because it’s something I can’t control.
Justin: Right.
Allison: If I could control it, I would get right on that. But it’s like all of the stuff that often happens is like totally out of my control, even though I’ve done like my very best. And that feels even harder because it’s just like, balls could be hitting me in the head at any second.
Justin: Right.
Allison: You know what I mean?
Justin: I know, yeah. Yeah, not having that control, that’s something else I was thinking about leading into this is that it makes it so hard is because it’s, that is one of the difficult things for me with living as caring for Sarah with her illnesses is like, it feels like the illnesses are what’s in control. And it’s like, there’s not things that I can be doing necessarily to mitigate the potential impact that they’re going to have on our life day to day.
Justin: And so that feeds into just being in that mode of like, I have to be prepared at any moment for whatever’s going to happen.
Allison: Right.
Justin: It feeds into that kind of like, this is just the inevitable situation of where we are.
Allison: When you said a second ago, the illnesses are in control, I thought for a second, my brain was like, they’re under control? I was like, oh, no, no, you mean they’re in control?
Justin: Right.
Allison: Which I think is such a powerful image, and I am going back to you and your boat trip, right? It’s almost like the illnesses are driving the boat. And we’re just like on the boat, and we don’t know which way it’s going to turn or whatever. They are the drivers of our life, right? Which feels really scary and really like… I can be, you know, we’ve talked about Enneagram, like I’m an achiever, I’m going to get all the stuff done. I can’t achieve my way out of this. I can be the very best caregiver, and still the illness is the one driving the boat. That feels really…
Allison: I don’t even know what adjectives it feels scary to think that like the illness gets to drive the boat and not me, regardless of what I do. Right?
Justin: That’s depressing.
Allison: Does anyone even still listen to this thing? Because we just tend to go real sad, real dark, real fast.
Justin: Well, I mean, it took a little bit this time, but yeah, it’s, I don’t know, another thing that I think about with, you know, burnout and all of this is like, you know, I came into caregiving already living with pretty severe anxiety and living with depression. And like, so for me, like feeling burned out is like, just tangled up also in the like, those as pre-existing conditions that I took into this. And so it’s like, am I feeling burned out or am I feeling depressed? Like, well, it does that matter. You know what I mean? Yeah, right?
Allison: Or is it a pandemic?
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: The answer is yes.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Well, I think, too, like, I keep thinking about, like, the physical. And again, I’m not trying to, like, slurp these two apart because I think that it’s important for us to start really thinking of physical and mental health together.
Justin: Yeah, I think burnout is kind of where those two meet.
Allison: Yeah, right. Because it could be, like, you’re sleeping less, and you’re not eating well, and you’re not exercising. And I’m not saying that as, like, a blame, blame, blame thing.
Justin: Right.
Allison: I’m just saying that those might be implications of being a caregiver. And then you’re worried, and you’re, right, and so you’re right, it’s this combination of, when those things all come together, then, like, you know, kablooey, there it goes. I’m just trying to think for caregivers, I want to make sure that caregivers hear, like, this is not your fault.
Allison: I don’t care what Mr. Google says, right? Like, this is a hard job that you’re doing. And I don’t, I mean, I don’t want to say it’s inevitable because that makes it, that’s a little depressing. Right? But I think that, like, if you’re tired, if you’re burnout, there is good reason for that. If you are a human right now, and even more so if you are a caregiver.
Allison: So I think some things, you know, there are those self-care things that we know about and we talk about and yada yada, right? That are sort of annoying, but like, you know, one thing, this seems really silly, I got this fancy water bottle. Have I told you about my fancy water bottle?
Justin: I don’t know if you have.
Allison: It has the little lines on it.
Justin: Oh, yeah, to tell you how far you should be along at one part of the day.
Allison: And I was telling Sean the other day, like, this water bottle feels like my security blanket. And I don’t know why, but it’s like something about it, like, and it’s not even so much like, look how much water I’m drinking. But I think that drinking water is actually really soothing.
Allison: And so even when I have found, you know, we’re like leaving the house more and all that kind of thing, like, it’s like I just need to have this thing right here with me. It’s like a little self-soothing to have this, and it’s pretty, and it’s all the things. So I mean, even just like little things like that, right? Like, can you drink the water? Can you have a fancy water bottle? Can you take a nap? Can you, you know what I mean? But I think also starting to think about like, it’s more than that. It’s more than, like, it’s also your nervous system.
Allison: And what are those ways that, like, those deep, deep, deep breaths and like meditation? And again, I mean, I hate to sell those, because so often people say those things in kind of a glib, like, well, of course, you should just be meditating, right?
Justin: Right.
Allison: And I think that we know that their breathing helps.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: You know, intentional breathing.
Justin: When you mentioned breathing, I remember, I mean, that’s something I’ve done in therapy, is I don’t remember the exact counts of the breathing, but it’s like, I think it’s in-breath, maybe it’s like four counts and hold it for four counts and breathe out for like eight or something like that. And it’s something with that sort of rhythm of breathing that is like actually does help break through that fight or flight mode that you’re in and kind of can help shut that down.
Allison: I think it’s that long out-breath that I was talking about. I think it’s the long out-breath signals like, oh, hey, you’re safe right now.
Justin: Right.
Allison: We also do a lot of like square breathing, where you like inhale for four, hold it for four, exhale for four, hold it for four. And those are just like, the reason I like those kind of things is because like I can be sitting there in a meeting, nobody knows I’m doing it. Nobody knows that I’m counting my breaths. Nobody knows when I’m like slurping on my water bottle and that it’s actually feeling really calming to me. You know what I mean? So what are those like, again, those micro moments that we’ve talked about in the past?
Allison: What are the micro moments we can do that to sort of soothe ourselves, you know, to take care of our little nervous systems as we go throughout the day? I’m also just wondering about supporters. You know, we try to talk to the supporters about every time. And I think one thing, we’ve said a lot of things not to do. Right? We don’t want them to say, like, are you taking care of yourself? Or this is your fault? Or if only you had, like, mm-hmm, nope. Are there things you can think of off the top of your head that would be helpful from a supporter standpoint?
Justin: I mean, I think acknowledging and validating the feelings of exhaustion and burnout and all of that as being like, yes, of course, you’re feeling that way. And responding with compassion around that, I think is really important. And then we talk about it a lot, but if you can take something off a caregiver’s plate, that’s going to help make a difference.
Justin: If you can grab some of those balls that are in the air and run with them, that’s going to ease the things that we have to be thinking about, be worrying about, be planning for.
Allison: Totally. I met a caregiver this week. She was her husband’s caregiver for 20 years. And she said there were times that she said, I could have had not a scrap of food in my house, one square toilet paper left in the house, all the things. And if someone had said to me, what can I do for you? I still would have been like, we’re fine. Because she’s like, I just did not have the energy to even explain what I needed, to get into a conversation about it. And I just thought, oh, wow. And so we said, what do you wish?
Allison: She said, I just wish somebody would have just put some groceries on my front steps. It was funny when she said the thing about toilet paper, because I was like, well, we can just always do that, because everybody’s always going to need that. There are things that you can just, you don’t have to be like, well, what number? Just show up. She’s like, I just wish nobody had asked. They hadn’t asked, and they just would have done it.
Allison: And so that just felt like a really powerful visual to me. She’s like, I just wish someone had come to my backyard and picked up the dog poop. I just wish someone had raked the leaves. I just wish someone had dropped off the groceries. And so I think, again, when we get so burnt out, that even explaining how we feel and what we need takes more energy than we have. So in the past, I’ve made a plug for the IanaCare app, and I’ll just say again, that’s why that’s so awesome, because I can sit here and in 45 seconds put out an ask to my team without talking to anybody.
Allison: But I think also just the power of just showing up. Just do it. Don’t ask, don’t put the burden on the caregiver.
Justin: And another thing that is particularly helpful around that is if you’re able to show up and do something consistently and regularly, whether that’s every second Monday, I’m going to bring you a meal or something like that, because otherwise it’s like, okay, yes, it’s great for this day. I don’t have to think about this thing. But if I know that there’s an ongoing thing where somebody’s always going to be mowing my lawn for me, like, oh my goodness, like that would be amazing.
Justin: Sarah’s dad mows the lawn here, so I do have that. It is incredible. But if you’re able to, more than just a one time or periodic thing, that regular, even if it’s not a huge thing, that makes a difference.
Allison: Yes, I think a lot about how you said that for a while. You had someone who every Monday night brought dinner. And you said about the balls in the air, that removes an enormous ball from the ceiling. Because you don’t have to be like, what are you doing cooking food? You just know it. So I think a combination.
Allison: Some people might have it in them to be like, I’m going to be your lawnmower for the season. Like, oh my goodness, can they come to me? Other people might not. And so then just like I dropped off some treats or some of this or some of that on your doorstep. It’s a combination of those things. And so as a supporter, whatever you feel like you’re able to do, do that and just realize that that is helping them in their exhaustion.
Allison: The other thing I was thinking about is I always appreciate it when people send things for the dog or the cats or the Maya, because when the other creatures in the house are occupied, and you know, like that makes my job easier. So I think they often get overlooked, but like the dog having a toy he really likes makes my life better. So that’s another thing for supporters to think about.
Allison: But I love that you said the piece about the acknowledgement, because it has really been helpful to me when people lately have been like, Allison, of course you’re tired. Like, oh, really? Because I sort of miss the super Allison who was doing all the things so much that she wasn’t tired because she didn’t let herself be tired.
Allison: You know what I mean? But trying to feel the feels, trying to see this as a hashtag gift that I have the time and space now to do the work and to feel the things that I haven’t been able to, even if feeling it is sometimes less comfortable than shoving it all down. So…
Justin: Yeah, it’s one of those things where to do the work is not… It’s hard and it’s not necessarily fun or enjoyable, but yeah, I think that it does… I hope for you it does pay off, and I think things like that can.
Allison: Well, because you know it’s going to come out sideways at some point.
Justin: Right, exactly.
Allison: You know, it’s not just magically going to stay shoved down, right? And so it’s probably good that it’s sort of like eking out right now, as opposed to exploding out at some point, you know?
Justin: Yeah, for sure.
Allison: Yeah, yeah. Okay, take a deep breath.
Allison: Well, it’s helpful to talk about this. This is stuff that’s been like swirling around in my mind lately, and I feel like, and today actually the day we’re recording this is World Mental Health Day.
Justin:Oh, yeah.
Allison: So I think it’s an important thing to talk about, and I think I’m learning a lot today from other people who are posting about how like, it’s kind of silly that it’s like mental health gets one day.
Justin: Right.
Allison: Right, and so you and I were talking about, have we done a topic like this before? And we’re like, we have done one on mental health, and we’re going to keep doing it.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Because it’s a huge part of this role and a huge part of life.
Justin: And it doesn’t get talked about enough.
Allison: Doesn’t get talked about enough, right? So we’re going to keep on talking about it. Yeah.
Allison: All right, here’s to a week that has some calm and some deep breaths.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And all good things with the puppies in our lives.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And yeah, just all those balls staying in the air and hopefully people showing up to support us and, you know, all good things.
Justin: That sounds good.
Allison: Yeah. All right. Thanks for talking.
Justin: Yeah, it’s been great talking to you as well.
Allison: Yeah. Okay.
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