Transcript
You’re listening to In Sickness, a podcast about caregiving, with Allison Breininger and Justin Bajema.
Justin: Good morning.
Allison: Hey, how are you?
Justin: Doing all right. How’s your week been?
Allison: Well, we just got back from being on vacation, which is huge, because we haven’t really left our house at all since March.
Justin: No, this isn’t really a vacation.
Allison: But we found a place where we could go, where there were no other people, and it had a beautiful view. And we just figured as long as we’re going to be stuck inside, we might as well be stuck inside somewhere else. So we just did that for a week, and it was so needed and wonderful and lovely.
Allison: Of course, from the caregiver perspective, that meant bringing all the medical supplies along, including things like a thermometer and a blood pressure cuff. It meant the home health nurse came there, I mean, a different one, obviously, but we had a nurse visit us there at the cabin. And then there was a day when he just all of a sudden looked real peaked and not so good.
Allison: And then I just had to go through all the things about like, do we leave, do we pack up, do we go to the hospital here, do we drive all the way home to our hospital, like what we’re even thinking, going on a vacation. So in the end, he perked up. So now I feel a little bit like, you know, we did, even though we were so, so, so careful, we had more exposure than we have, you know, because we were out of our house.
Allison: So I think that adds an extra layer for these next couple of weeks of like watching for symptoms and whatnot. But in the end, I mean, at this moment, I’m saying it was totally worth it. Obviously, if he gets sick or one of us gets sick from it, that’ll be a different story. But it was just really we loved our house a lot, and it was nice to be in a different space and not just in this.
Justin: Right. Being in your house for months on end.
Allison: Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
Justin: Change of scenery is I’m sure it was quite.
Allison: Yes, it was really, really nice. So yeah, we’re just home from that. How about you? How was your week?
Justin: I mean, not anything too remarkable. I mean, it’s still, I don’t know, as I feel like I say every week, I don’t know. It just kind of feels like the same sort of thing.
Allison: Right.
Justin: Yeah. And so, I mean, kind of with that, one of the things that for, I don’t know, a couple of months, it’s kind of been I’ve been thinking about is so it’s been a couple of years since, like, we had the last big like step forward with Sarah’s like health. And so that was, you know, getting her on her like daily infusions. And so like that, the difference from like before that to like now is is a huge difference. But it also feels like that it’s not getting we’ve reached the peak of like what that can do.
Allison: Okay.
Justin: And so it feels like and I think it’s, you know, particularly it’s summer now and, you know, we didn’t we don’t really go anywhere, even if we could. But like last summer we were she was doing a lot better than she is this summer. And so we were we would be out more, you know, picking blueberries, things like that.
Justin: And so it’s kind of been apparent because we haven’t been able to do that as much that, you know, she’s not doing as well as last summer. And so it’s kind of at this point where for me, it feels like we’re just kind of like treading water. We’re just kind of like maintaining or, you know, regressing a little bit. But it’s and it doesn’t feel like there is like we have the next like steps laid out. Like this is our plan to move forward from here. And I don’t know that there I don’t know what that would be.
Justin: So from me as like the caregiver, the person who like does all of the stuff, like it feels like that naturally falls then on me to figure out where we go from here, which I mean is I think a unreasonable to some extent expectation.Like that’s not…
Allison: How many medical degrees do you have?
Justin: Right. I have none. But I mean, this was I don’t know how many years ago this was. But like I kind of diagnosed Sarah with POTS.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: Like that was something as I was reading, like I must have been reading about like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue or something. And that was like a similar or something that people also can often have. And so like I’m reading this and it’s like this sounds a lot like Sarah.
Allison: Wow.
Justin: And so, you know, I got heart rate monitor and we started taking readings every day. And so with POTS, it’s like one of the classic things is like, so if you’re sitting down and then you stand up, like your heart rate drastically jumps and your blood pressure drops also at the same time, that’s harder to like track, I think. So yeah, we would just do that every day. And we had these graphs and it was like, you know, she’d go from sitting to standing and her heart rate would jump, you know, 50 beats per minute or something like almost instantly. And so we had that data, we brought that to her doctors. And I mean, they weren’t immediately like, yes, this is, you’ve done it.
Allison: Eureka!
Justin: Right. But yeah, I mean, that certainly led us on the path to get that diagnosis, which then to get her fluids, which has, you know, made a huge difference. And so I think the fact that I happened to figure that out also plays into like, well, I did it before, I need to do it again.
Allison: Right. I was just going to say you, you know, you said you happened to find it, right? I mean, I think that that you’re always downplaying your awesomeness. We need to work on that. But so you, you know, I mean, you were intentionally like studying that. I mean, it just makes me realize, you know, last time we talked about like not being able to just be the spouse, right?
Allison: So you’re not just able like hang out with her. Like you turned into like a researcher in that moment. And you were doing like not only were you reading the articles, but then you also like you said you were writing like making graphs and, you know, collecting data. Right. And so again, I feel like that’s a part of caregiving that people don’t think of. They think of maybe you like refilling the prescriptions and, you know, all that.
Allison: But but I mean, you were like a like a scientist in that moment, like a researcher, you know, like trying to find that answer. And it’s incredible that you did. And I can see how that would lead to feeling extra pressure. Like you just said of like, I did it once and that helped. So what else? What should I do next? Right. And so it’s this piece about not just feeling like you can trust the doctors, but feeling like you need you need to be on. You need to be searching. And again, that’s not your expertise.
Justin: Right. And it’s not just like trusting the doctors. It’s, you know, we have a handful of doctors, but it doesn’t feel like we have a single person who is overseeing everything other than me.
Allison: Yeah. Yes.
Justin: And so like I have to steer this ship, and yet I don’t often feel like I totally know what I’m doing with that.
Allison: Right.
Justin: And it feels like the stakes are also very high.
Allison: Yes.
Justin: Like it adds to that pressure. And so I would assume that there’s other caregivers who can kind of relate to this feeling stuck like this, because it’s, you know, there’s pressure to whether that’s start a new round of like reading and research and all of that. So there’s that pressure like, do I need to be starting on that?
Justin: And then there’s just the feeling of overwhelm and just like the magnitude of like having to be the person who’s fitting all these pieces together.
Allison: Right. Yeah, I think, yeah, you bring up so many good points. I think one is that piece about like, you are the only person who sees and experiences and knows all the things, right?
Allison: I mean, technically, some doctors should be reading all the charts, but you know that they’re not. Yeah, like they’re looking at their one little part of the body and often do not take time to put all those pieces together. And so for you, you’re holding and seeing this huge picture, which is already enough stress, but then to think about like, for you to be this almost like a detective, right?
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: But that’s so much pressure. It’s so much pressure to think like, okay, I am the one person that holds my spouse’s potential well-being in my hands. Like, that’s not the way it should be, you know, like, it makes me mad for you. It makes me mad for all of us that, like, you’re put in that position.
Justin: Yeah. And it’s, I mean, with Sarah’s condition, it’s less that I have to put in this work to, like, prevent her health from declining as much as it is, like, this is where we’re at. And looking ahead, like, is this, like, am I just, I don’t know how to put this exactly, but am I kind of just, like, settling with like, okay, we’re here?
Justin: Or can we put in work to, you know, make another step forward? And so there’s that, like, and Sarah feels it too, that kind of like restlessness of like, okay, we need to kind of do something. And, you know, I think at the end of last year, we were, this was going to be a year we were going to try to do more of that.
Justin: And then it became leaving the house, COVID, all of that. So it’s like that kind of put a lot of that on hold. And so it’s trying to figure out, which I get, I think we talked about last week a little bit is like, how do you decide that risk of like going to see a new doctor getting answers on this versus just like leaving the house and exposing yourself to this virus?
Allison: So I have a question that I know the answer to in my house, but I would guess that a person who’s not a caregiver listening might have. And that is, why do you feel like you’re the one that is in charge and not Sarah?
Justin: I mean, that is a good question for us. I mean, with her fatigue and all of that, it’s just it’s harder for her to kind of like mentally contain all of that or be able to necessarily make the decisions or to, I mean, some with her like brain fog, sometimes even like what the right words to say or something. And so having me to kind of be that person, I mean, one, it allows her to focus just on her and her health and all of that offloads all of that additional responsibility.
Justin: And it also, I mean, for me, it just feels like, like, of course, that’s something I can do for her. That’s something, you know, I can’t make her feel better today, but I can, you know, help coordinate and manage this medical stuff.
Allison: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that makes perfect sense to me, and I think my answer would be almost identical to that. I just, as you said it, I was thinking, I wonder if there are listeners who are like, wait a minute, why can’t the person themselves do it? It is interesting because I think we have a good friend who has, he’s around our age and has cystic fibrosis, and obviously has had that forever. And so he, in their scenario, is much more of an advocate for himself because he grew up with it.
Justin: Right.
Allison: And so it’s always been interesting for me to watch that, his relationship with his wife, because he’s just sort of like, this is what I do. I’ve always done it. I’m the one that coordinates all the things, and I feel like it’s sometimes different for people who were diagnosed as an adult, maybe.
Justin: Yeah. And I think at the beginning of this journey with me and Sarah, it started out, she had this intense, intense migraine and couldn’t do anything. She was just in a dark room for two weeks. And the first, I don’t know, the first months of like seeing a headache specialist and all of that, we would show up to the appointment and they would get us back into an exam room as quickly as possible. So she could just lay down and they would have the lights dimmed. And, you know, I was doing the vast majority of all of the talking and communicating. And so early on, that very much like set kind of the roles there. So, yeah.
Allison: Well, I think about that too, because for her and for Sean as well, like there are times that I would say for Sean that he feels well enough that he could coordinate some things. And then there are times that he’s so sick that there’s no way he could. And so then in those moments, then he sort of is like, there’s a gap, right?
Allison: Like if he was the one in charge, he would, there would be a gap there of like, what just happened? I don’t even know. I was too sick, you know? And so it’s like, as the caregiver, I’m the sort of the steady one who’s always conscious. You know, and not in pain and, you know, and able to hold the whole story on the days when he is and when he isn’t able to, you know, hold on to that. It makes me think even, you know, in March, when he was in the hospital for a couple of days and there was a visitor ban, and so I wasn’t able to be there.
Allison: And then when he came home, like I just had all these questions about like, well, what is the new prescription and what is the new and what, and he’s like, I, I don’t, I don’t know, you know, because it was the kind of thing and it’s not that he’s not responsible. It’s just that he was sick.
Justin: Right. Exactly.
Allison: And he’s not used to paying attention to those details because usually I’m the one there to ask those questions. I was thinking the other day about like, would you consider yourself a type A person or no?
Justin: I don’t think so.
Allison: I was just thinking about, I mean, I’m obviously very clearly type A and I was just thinking about caregivers and if, I don’t know, I just thought like, because caregivers carry so much and have to organize and take care of so much, that I just wonder if there was a person who wasn’t type A, but were thrown into being a caregiver, like, if they sort of end up having to be that way. I don’t know.
Justin: Yeah, I don’t think I’m like classically type A.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: Yeah, like I don’t have a, I don’t know, would it be type A for me to have like several binders of like very organized, laid out information of like Sarah’s health over the past, you know, five years?
Allison: Yes.
Justin: Yes, it was. Okay, so I mean, we had something when we were first starting to figure things out, but no, I don’t. And for me, what I often feel is that I should be more that way, and it creates this kind of like feedback loop of, you know, stress or anxiety or like, you know, I’m not doing as good as I could because I don’t have, you know, I’m not super organized and I can’t pull up, you know, whatever during a doctor’s appointment and all that. And so, like, that’s always been this thing that’s kind of like in the back of my mind, like, this is something I need to do. This is something I need to do. And I don’t know that it is or not.
Allison: Right.
Justin: I don’t know that collecting all of that information is going to help Sarah in the next week or two or year.
Allison: But yeah. Right.
Justin: But yeah, so as a type A, a non type A person, it yeah, it’s stressful.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Well, just to make you feel better, I do not have binders. I have had binders over the years, but then there were just too many.
Justin: Right.
Allison: Yeah. I mean, sometimes even now, like somebody emailed the other day and said, what was the name and the chemo he was on and it’s like, at this point, we have lived so many lifetimes that I’m like, I don’t know. I mean, that used to be right on the tip of my tongue and now that was like six disasters ago. So I don’t know. I’m sure it’s in a chart somewhere.
Allison: What does it feel like for you to like, I hear it sounds like there feels like some pressure, right? Like pressure to be organized, pressure to like find the next thing, pressure that like, if you don’t start researching and graphing and whatever, that this might be the status quo, right? And it’s like, what does it feel like for you to walk around like that?
Justin: Overwhelming. Yeah, it, I mean, for me, that feeling that overwhelming, it like a kind of free, it kind of is paralyzing a little bit. Like I don’t, personality wise, feel that overwhelm and like be able to instantly channel that into action.
Allison: Right.
Justin: You know? So it, yeah, it just feels like this weight that’s on me to have to do that. And constantly aware that I’m not.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: I feel like I don’t feel like I’m doing all of that. And there’s just, I mean, there’s so many other things that need to be done and that I am doing. And so it’s, I don’t know, there’s that balance is like, what, what can I do today for Sarah or for us like right now?
Justin: That’s going to make today less bad versus, you know, if I’m spending every day assembling paperwork and have my nose in all, in books and all of that, like, okay, I’m doing that, but like, I’m not spending time with my wife or, you know, attending to what she needs, like that moment. And so I think that’s another one of those difficult balances for, I imagine, a lot of caregivers is like, focusing on like, what can I do for long term versus like, okay, what needs to happen right now? And not losing sight of those like right now moments.
Allison: Yeah, yeah, you know, it’s just like really hitting me today in this conversation is thinking about like, it’s just not fair. I mean, because like you’re I mean, so much of it isn’t fair. But you’re not like, we’re not trained to do this, like we’re not trained to do any of it.
Allison: But we are not scientists or medical experts. And it just feels like that this weight and responsibility is on us feels just not fair. And it’s not that I think the sort of a backwards twisted piece is that it’s not that the medical professionals are saying, you know what you should do, Justin, you should go study some things, right?
Allison: Like, they’re not the one they’re just like, clicking along, appointment to appointment, right? It’s more that like this fear from both of us of like, are, are these medical people doing all the things they’re supposed to be doing?
Allison: For a while, I wanted to get a hat that just said like, do your job. Because I just felt like all these appointments, it was like, can you just do your job? So I can just be over here?
Allison: Yeah, I just, it just makes me really frustrated for both of us and for all the caregivers out here that we, so many roles, I feel like every episode we do, we unpack a whole extra role that we have. And I think this is a huge one. For us, it’s less about progression like you were talking about, and more about when Sean has had new diagnoses, the research around that, because there are so few people who have fanconi anemia and who are at the same ages, Sean, all these things.
Allison: And so it’s always like, have we asked enough people? Have we gotten enough perspectives? Especially like last year when we had to decide, does he go through radiation, even though there was so little data about that? Have we gone to enough specialists? Have we traveled? All those things.
Allison: And it just felt like, have I done enough research? And again, like me, I am not qualified to be doing this, but I felt the pressure from myself, not from other people, but just that if this doesn’t go well, am I going to think back and realize, oh, I should have called that doctor, or we should have gone to that other hospital, or we should have asked more, done more?
Justin: Yeah, but I mean, there, it’s almost like him having these treatments that there’s no data for or whatever. There almost isn’t, there is a limit to how much research you can do versus, I don’t know, I could Google fibromyalgia or POTS and have, I would never get through all of the results probably. I imagine that that would be a frustrating thing, is that there’s just lack of information and at some point, it’s like, yeah, you do have to, did I talk to someone who has the right knowledge or perspective? You’re putting that more on other others a little bit?
Allison: Yeah. I think too, I mean, you and I are both still youngish and sometimes it feels like we’re the grownups. Like, how did we, how, we are, what?
Allison: So like with his radiation, we went to the Mayo Clinic and we went to the University of Minnesota and the two teams at these two highly respected places gave us the exact opposite advice about what to do. And then we, little old us, like we had to be the ones to make a decision. And it just feels sometimes like, wait, us, we’re in charge here? Come on now.
Justin: Yeah, I feel that way. Like, wait, I’m in charge and it’s like, no one is telling us what to do. Like we don’t have any options to compare. It’s like, which direction do I point this ship kind of thing? Yeah.
Allison: Yeah. What is it? What, what do you feel like you could be doing? Like if you were like, okay, somebody gave me all the time and money in the world and to just say like, okay, figure out next steps. Like what could you be doing? What would that look like?
Justin: I mean, honestly, if I had all of the money in the world, like hiring someone to be like a medical coordinator, like I don’t know if that’s a role that exists, but just to unload all of that coordination and making sure that everyone has the right information and all of that, like that feels like that would alleviate a lot of stress.
Allison: So not even like finding new things, you’re just saying managing the current things.
Justin: Yeah, exactly. And I guess then with all of the money, a team of researchers, I mean, we have to be realistic a little bit. I mean, I would like to do more.
Justin: I would like to be doing more research and kind of being, I mean, not to the extent where like that’s taking over every moment of my life, but to find a way to have to stay on top of what’s going on with these things, and at least to kind of have some like, well, maybe we should look into this or maybe we should look into that. And I feel like that’s, yeah, I don’t feel as up on all of that. And I think going back to when Sarah started getting her infusions, like suddenly things were improving and that hadn’t happened, you know, for a long time.
Justin: And so that burden wasn’t there as much, like, okay, now things are getting better. And so there’s not, like I don’t need to be investing in that as much because we’re in the right direction now. And now that that’s plateaued, it feels like a lot of that’s coming back. Because it’s like, okay, we’ve made it this far. Now we’re just kind of here. What do we do next? And it’s like, I look around and, you know, who is the person who’s gonna figure out what we do next? And it’s just like, I, yeah.
Allison: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I wonder, is there also pressure of like, let’s say you find the magic article, right? And you’re like, wait, this is it.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Allison: Do your doctors listen to you? Like, if you bring in an article and say, look what I found, guys, are they gonna respect that or what’s, how would that go down?
Justin: To be honest, that’s not something I’d considered, so thank you for A New Anxiety.
Allison: Happy to help, you know, there’s always one more thing to add.
Justin: I mean, we haven’t had the experience, really, of doctors not doing, you know, something like, once we figured out, it seems like Sarah has POTS, we went through getting diagnosed with that. She had done some reading, I had done some reading, and it’s like, okay, you know, fluids, IV fluids can be really beneficial. And her doctors were like, this isn’t really, we’re not, you know, we don’t know a lot about this, or this isn’t our expertise or something.
Justin: But they, I mean, they were willing to try it. And, you know, we managed then to, I mean, it feels like we convinced them to, like, you know, put a tube in her chest so she had, so she can do this every day, like, which is, I mean, pretty remarkable that that happened. And one of her previous doctors was, you know, she was open about, you know, this is having this much fluids that you’re taking.
Justin: This is certainly at the edge of my comfort level, but we’ve been able to kind of keep that going and not having anyone be like, no, we can’t do that. I think there is, I think there has been times where it’s like, you know, especially she just got a, this year got a new primary care doctor because her previous one moved. And so there was that then that anxiety of like, okay, we’re doing kind of these oddball things or thing, you know, not textbook treatments or I mean, I guess maybe there is a textbook that explains this, but they don’t cover it.
Justin: But is she going to, you know, be on board with all of this? Because if she’s not like to feel like the thing that has made all of the difference in the world could be taken away like that, that’s not easy. And so far, you know, it’s, yeah, we’ve been able to maintain that.
Allison: It just strikes me. I remember that when you guys were starting your new doctor and you’re concerned that like, what if she says no, right? And it just feels like another layer of like trying to convince this person, this other person who doesn’t live in your house to continue to let you do this thing that benefits you, you know, it’s just like the convincing part just feels so hard.
Allison: I hope that, I know in some of Sean’s clinics, like we now, like they see us way more as like the fanconi anemia specialists than they are. And so they look to us, which again is a lot of pressure, but to say like, okay, we see this thing, it’s a little concerning. Do you want to biopsy it? Typically we wouldn’t biopsy it, but you guys know better than we do, and so it feels good that we don’t have to convince them. And the other side of that coin is that then we’re in charge, which is a little bit scary sometimes.
Justin: Yeah, that reminds me of something I saw, I don’t know, the last week or something about having that level of like equality with like patient doctor, like relations to where like you’re both equal participants in this like health thing. Like it’s not the doctors just telling you everything, like you’re, I mean, in this case, it’s our spouses who are like the experts on like what they’re feeling, but like we’re also, you know, definitely intertwined in that.
Allison: I mean, I think an equal, I think it makes some sense, right? So that the doctor is willing to listen to us, but then also we’re not feeling like all the pressure is on us to like make all the decisions and all the discoveries. Do you ever feel like from Sarah, is she ever like, hey, figure this out?
Allison: I don’t get that sense from her. But is that the kind of thing that like, do you feel like you’re putting this pressure on yourself or do you think it’s coming from her or where is it coming from?
Justin: Oh, it’s 100% coming from me. I don’t feel that pressure from her at all.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And so I guess that’s realizing that it’s coming from me and not her to then kind of, okay, I can let myself off the hook a little bit on some of this pressure.
Allison: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Justin: Yeah, because she’s also aware of, or she’s reading or talking to people who are also sick with what she has and comparing what they’re doing for treatments versus what she’s doing. And so she’s got, certainly has thoughts on what she’d like to try and all of that too. And so it’s, yeah, it’s not like it literally is 100% on me. It’s still very much a team effort between us.
Allison: I would guess at that. I know that that’s been true for us too, is being connected to other people. And so it’s sometimes more like those connections of people you meet on social media, that where you learn more than even a scientific article.
Allison: And so that’s a good point to think about, learning in that way too. And I know that she’s super connected to other communities. But yeah, I just was wondering when I asked that about, if there would ever be a moment that you would be like, oh, okay, good, okay, I can relax, or I could rest, or I’ve done enough, right?
Justin: Right. Yeah, I don’t know if it’ll ever be like, I’ve done enough, but I would see if there is, if we arrive at some, or we come up with something that, okay, this is for the next six months or something, this is kind of what we’re gonna be trying out, to have that level of future planned out or laid out, I think would, yeah, that would, I feel like I could breathe a little bit.
Allison: Yeah. I just keep, I know the last time we talked about a backpack, and I just keep picturing that again, right? And then it’s like every episode, we talk about a different boulder in this ridiculously heavy backpack, and that this is just a whole extra one. And I just think, what would it take for any of us to be able, any of us caregivers to be able to like breathe, you know, and feel like, okay, yep, that was, I’m good.
Allison: My work here is done, or my work, you know what I mean? Like, and I, there are so many different pieces that it feels like, I don’t know if that’s ever an option. I don’t know.
Justin: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know, this past, last weekend, I was able to drive out into the mountains and be in nature for a couple hours, and out of cell phone range. So literally unreachable. And, you know, for that, for those couple hours, I could breathe and I didn’t feel that burden. I mean, I could almost feel as I was driving away from the house, like feeling that, like knowing where I was going, feeling that load lightening a little bit.
Allison: Wow, yeah. You were totally by yourself?
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Nice, yeah.
Justin: So yeah, I think, I know for me, I need to do things more of that, especially in these times when I’m working from home and all of that. It’s, yeah, that was a good reminder for me to, I don’t know, I guess put my own oxygen mask on first.
Allison: I know, I mean, you know I hate that stuff, but it’s also true. I mean, I hate, here’s how I should clarify. I hate when people are, non-caregivers are always reminding us to do that kind of thing, because it is often not realistic.
Allison: And I love that you found a way that worked for you, and then it was just a couple of hours, and it didn’t need to be, I know you had a couple of trips planned this spring that didn’t get to happen, but so it didn’t need to be necessarily like a huge trip, it could just like those couple of hours. And I think that’s huge what you talked about about like not being in cell phone service. So like for a couple of hours, it’s like not it, right?
Allison: It’s kind of like last summer I went to Boston on a trip and it was sort of like, I’m not there. Like if something goes down, like I can’t be the one, and of course disasters did happen and other people just had to step in because I wasn’t there. And so sometimes it’s, even though that’s hard, it’s kind of nice to be like, not it, can’t be it for these couple of hours or a couple of days, whatever that is, yeah, yeah.
Allison: Well, I think I just am still thinking about your data collection story and just like how amazing.
Justin: I can show you the graphs.
Allison: I would like to see the graphs.
Justin: I’ll find the graphs.
Allison: But I just think that’s pretty incredible, like what you guys were able to do and to realize that if you hadn’t done even that step, that she wouldn’t be in as good of a spot as she is right now. And so again, when you said, what did you say? Well, I suppose I did. Or I don’t know, you downplayed it in some way, but I think you should again be like, I’m the one to figure this out. So I’m pretty awesome.
Justin: Thank you for that.
Allison: Oh, yeah. Well, thanks. I feel like I asked you a lot of like therapy questions today. I didn’t mean to go there, but I think.
Justin: That’s okay.
Allison: I’ll send you my bill in the mail.
Justin: Oh, please don’t.
Allison: Yeah, it was good talking to you. It’s, yeah, it’s another thing we carry. But I think there’s a lot of things we talked about today that I’m going to be thinking about for a while. So thank you for that.
Justin: You’re welcome. That’s been good to kind of get a lot of that out. And I hope that it helps someone else realize that, yeah, there’s other people who are also really stressed out and overwhelmed by some things. So, yeah.
Allison: Does that help listeners to know you’re not alone? We’re all stressed out and overwhelmed?
Allison: All right, well, here’s to a good week ahead, and I’ll talk to you soon.
Justin: All right, that sounds good.
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