Transcript
You’re listening to In Sickness, a podcast about caregiving, with Allison Breininger and Justin Bajema.
Allison: Good morning, Justin. How are you today?
Justin: Morning, Allison. I’m doing okay, I’m feeling tired. It’s, I think like a lot of people, just life kind of seems to be, I don’t know, hard, exhausting right now. Yeah, so it’s just been, I don’t know that it’s been an explicitly rough week, but it’s just, I don’t know, things feel tired, things feel kind of stuck. And one of those times when just trying to exist and kind of get through sort of feelings. So, yeah.
Allison: I saw a thing that said, this January, I’m doing a thing called, oh, I’m gonna mess this up, but something like get through every day, or I don’t know, something like that. Like it’s basically just like, can we get through just each day? It’s just like a little victory. And I don’t know, I think we’ve talked about being empaths. And I think that the empath in me is also struggling, because I can see everybody else struggling.
Justin: Right.
Allison: You know, like I just, my heart is just for teachers and parents and medical professionals, and everybody is just having a hard time. And so I think my empath heart is also just like breaking for everybody having hard times right now.
Justin: Yeah, for sure.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: How’s this, however, things going for you? Other than that, I guess.
Allison: Yeah. Well, I think so one thing, you know, we’re recording this on January 15th, which I feel like we should say, because I feel like things are changing so quickly around here. So we made the decision to not send Maya to school the last two weeks, just because COVID numbers are so, so high.
Allison: And yes, she is vaxxed. She actually got boosted yesterday, which is very exciting, now that 15-year-olds can get boosted. But we just thought it just seemed inevitable that she was going to get it and then bring it home. And then, you know what? All the things. And so we made the hard decision to do that. We’re kind of going rogue. There isn’t like a plan for that with the district. A lot of districts around us have decided to go virtual, but ours is not.
Allison: And so we’re just kind of taking it day by day. And we’ve said to her, your mental and emotional health is really important to us. So if it feels like that is taking a hit because of this, you need to tell us. And she said, yeah, absolutely, well. So Thursday night, she said, okay, I’m ready. Please can I go back tomorrow?
Allison: And we were like, okay, sure, of course. Your mental health is important to us. But then when she thought about it, she realized this was a three-day weekend coming up. And so she said, you know, maybe it’ll feel less weird if I go back on Tuesday, because then everyone will just have been gone for a while. Is that okay? And I was like, sure.
Allison: Sure. Great idea. So we’ll see. I mean, my hope, I don’t think it’ll happen, but my hope is that over the weekend, our district will be like, you know what, we should just really go to distance learning like everybody else. But so that’s been really hard in all the ways, of course. But I think it’s felt really kind of lonely to make this decision, because last year, her freshman year, you know, we chose the online track, and a lot of people were choosing the online track. And at this moment, we’re making up our own path.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: You know, like, there isn’t necessarily a thing that we’re doing. We’re just, like, talking to the guidance counselor and saying, this is what’s happening. And fortunately, at this point, you know, they’re not, they’ve said they’re not going to call, like, the truancy officer or whatever.
Allison: You know, and that there, she’s just doing her homework from home. And it feels really lonely to be making this decision without crowds of others. You know, like, I’m sure there’s a couple other people doing it.
Allison: But my therapist said this week, she said, does it feel like before everyone was in it together and now they’re not? And I was like, you know, I remember you and you and I, Justin, talking about this.
Justin: We did.
Allison: The very beginning.
Justin: Yep.
Allison: The very, very beginning, everybody was in it together. And that lasted like a hot second.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Right? Because not very long after that, people were like, well, I’m tired of being in my house. Off I go. And we were like, wait, what?
Justin: Right. And that was, what, 18 months ago, at least.
Allison: Right. Yeah. And then I feel like there have been some, you know, I surround myself with a lot of, shall I say, like-minded folks, right? And so there have been a lot of people who have been sort of taking the paths that we’ve been taking and making decisions we’ve been making.
Allison: But this feels like a new moment where I don’t know of anybody off top of my head who is making the choice right now to keep their kids at home. And that’s totally, you know, if we were in a different situation, I might not be doing that either, right? So it’s no judgment, but it feels pretty lonely and hard. And I think a lot about like last time we talked about decision fatigue. So same thing. Like, you know, last time I said, I sometimes have to like call my mom and call my friend.
Allison: And so I did. I was like, okay, friend, just help me think about this. Like how do we weigh this? And like, what are the benchmarks we’re going to use to decide when she can go back? I don’t know. You know, yeah, so there’s the loneliness of making the decision, but then also the loneliness of like, now it’s the three of us in the house, which actually we three of us have kind of a delightful time together, which is good.
Allison: But we’re hunkered down again. So not going out. You know, we’re seeing my parents, that’s it. Avoiding anything that is not super super necessary. So lonely loneliness is kind of a theme that I thought perhaps we could tackle today. Real cheerful, real cheerful.
Justin: Well, maybe not cheerful, but I think it’s an important one.
Allison: Agreed.
Justin: I know that it’s a frequent thing that you hear from caregivers is that it is very lonely. And that’s something I know, we’ve gotten some messages this past week of like, from people who have like, yeah, this has been really lonely and hearing you guys talk about it has helped. And so I think if there’s anything we can do by talking about the fun topic of loneliness and how hard it is and what you can do or anything like that, that we can help some people out, I think that would be great.
Justin: Because I think it’s lonely, absolutely. And I think there’s like multiple reasons for it. There’s the loneliness around, like no one gets it. No one understands the path you’re on or what your day to day life is like, or is like not even aware of what’s happening in your life day to day.
Justin: Like I think back to when Sarah was really sick, and I was going into work. And that wasn’t something that I was telling people at work that my wife was really sick and in bed, and I was caring for her, and it was like to have all of that weight that you’re carrying and no one around you knows that it’s happening. Like that is a lonely, lonely feeling just to feel unseen.
Justin: And so that’s like a piece of loneliness in caregiving. There’s also times when you are just like physically alone. And there’s like, I think back to when at that same time period, like when I was home, like her sleep schedule was just a mess. And so there would be days where she was, you know, sleeping all day, and maybe it’s the weekend, and I’m just also in the house, but like, I can’t go anywhere. You know, I’m downstairs trying not to make a lot of noise, and it’s just like, I was physically isolated, and that felt very alone. And so there’s like different levels to it.
Justin: And like more recently, like when I had to bring Sarah to the ER, and I spent hours sitting in the car in the parking lot alone. And like with those things, it’s like the loneliness of like, not just being separated and unable to like talk to people in general or it, but like with Sarah being the one as like my person, that is not like that loneliness separation from her.
Allison: Right, right.
Justin: That is there as well.
Allison: So that’s like a triple whammy because you’re not with your person. You’re not with anybody. I mean, like sitting alone in a parking lot, like sounds like the saddest, loneliest thing, you know? And then the fact that it’s not like there’s a lot of people in your life. I mean, you could have called me and I would have gotten it, but there’s not a lot of people in your life that you could have talked to in that moment who would have been like, Oh, I get it. You know what I mean?
Allison: Like, so there’s that loneliness of like, nobody, most 40 year old guys are not living this right now. Like most people don’t get what I’m going through right now.
Justin: Right.
Allison: So it’s like this triple whammy of loneliness. I feel like when people reach out to me, the words get it, or like the most frequent words that I hear, like when people talk to me about like, they want to sign up for coaching, or they with me, or they want to, they’re interested in the support groups I’m going to start. Almost every time someone says, I just want to be with somebody or with people who get it.
Allison: And so I hear that sort of mantra of like, people don’t get it. And of course they don’t, right? It’s so many people have said like, now that I’m a caregiver, I realize like, oh man, I had no idea what my caregiver friends were going through.
Allison: And you kind of can’t get it until you’re in it, you know? But I think that that being surrounded by people who don’t get it feels so lonely. Like I know it’s a relief, like hanging out with you. Or hanging out with other people in the chronic illness or the FA community, where we don’t have to be weird about like, oh, we’re going to hook Sean up to some fluids, or, oh, like if I have to say like, you’re looking a little peaked, you need to lie down, whatever it is, like, none of that we have to even like pause about because they’re like, yeah, we get it. Whereas if I had to do that in a quote, typical gathering, people might be like, what’s happening? And they have to worry about their feelings, and are they grossed out or whatever, right?
Allison: And so that can feel really lonely, even in the middle of a party.
Justin: Yeah, right, for sure.
Allison: Because the people just are living such a different life than we are.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: I think with that, too, when we think about, there’s the loneliness of, like when I say about a party, there’s also that piece of watching people, like you’ve talked about kids, right? And so things about, things that you’re watching other people do, that didn’t end up happening for you, or things that we’re watching, like I had a good friend the other day who had this opportunity, and she got to go to this artist’s retreat, and her daughter was sick, and so she didn’t know she should go, and all this stuff, and then she ended up going, and I was both so happy for her that she got to go, and also kind of jealous slash lonely, because I thought there’s no way in my life that I could go on that retreat, even if everybody was healthy.
Allison: But especially if someone in the household wasn’t. There’s just no way. And so there’s this moment, that’s another moment of sort of like oh. You know and like, I wouldn’t want to say that to her. But she doesn’t get that because her house is so different, and I’m happy that it is. You know?
Justin: Yeah, I hadn’t thought about that piece. And like yeah, that was. It comes and goes, but it’s that feeling of like being left behind.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And that was really hard initially for a long time, specifically around kids, but also just people just progressing in life along, the you know, normal path we assume your life progresses. And like, it always felt like sitting on the shore and like everybody else is just like drifting. I feel like a lot of my analogies involve water, but I don’t know. It’s always been a helpful metaphor for me. But just, yeah, everybody’s floating by and you’re just kind of left there on your own. And yeah, it’s tough.
Justin: And I know it’s something that through the whole caregiving journey, like feeling alone has been like an overarching thing, feeling that isolation, feeling unseen. And I don’t know what the like, fix is for it necessarily. I do know that, like once I started talking about it a little bit more, people were aware of what was going on.
Justin: There was a little bit more of, there was a little bit less of feeling unseen, which was helpful. Finding friends who are also caregivers and being able to either talk about it, or feeling like you don’t have to talk about it, because they understand all of that stuff. You don’t have to get through all of like, well, this is the situation before getting to the, talking about something else.
Justin: And so that those things regarding, and those are like feeling seen, and those are, that’s the piece that I think that some of those things can address. But it’s hard too, because as a caregiver, you don’t have as much time for that kind of stuff to pursue.
Allison: Mm-hmm.
Justin: Hanging out with other people and kind of, I don’t know, developing that life. There’s less outside life to kind of get involved in kind of.
Allison: Right.
Justin: You can feel very much like you’re just stuck at home, I mean, particularly now with the pandemic. That’s like, all of that is heightened, and it’s, yeah, even more challenging.
Allison: Well, and some of that gets into what we talked about a couple of times ago about the benefits and challenges of being with people in your community, right?
Justin: Yeah, mm-hmm.
Allison: And so, yes, I mean, I love that of like when you’re with another caregiver and you don’t have to, I don’t know if you ever feel like this, but when I’m with non-caregivers, I’m sometimes always worried, are they going to be like, how is Sean? How are you? You know, like some of those were sometimes you want them to ask and sometimes you don’t want them to ask.
Allison: And when you’re with your people, you know, like I consider you my people, that like I don’t worry about that. Right. Because if I’m not up for it, I can also just be like, I don’t want to talk about it right now. And I know you’ll be like, yeah, cool, fine, no problem, you know. But we also talked about how like it can be hard to meet in those communities. We just had two dear friends in our FA community get really hard diagnoses this week, you know.
Allison: And so while we get it, it’s also, that’s hard, it’s really hard. And so then there’s a loneliness there as well, where like most 40 somethings year olds are not, their friends are not, you know, kind of dropping like flies, you know, that’s not happening. And for us, it is.
Justin: Right.
Allison: Like that is part of our reality. And so that feels lonely that most people are not having to go to murals and to deal with these hard things. Most people’s vacations are not to medical conferences.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: You know, to learn more about the disease. And so each of those things feels like it kind of sets us apart, but not in a good way, right? In this kind of like lonely, lonely way.
Allison: Something that I’ve heard, especially spousal caregivers talk about is the piece about that in some ways, when their person gets sick, that then they lose some of that person as their person, right? So you and I have talked to some about like loss, lose them in their role, like maybe they can’t do as much or make decisions. But I think there’s also the piece, I’ve heard a lot of caregivers say that, like they used to be, like I’ll just say for Sean and me, like back in the day before this, like I could be like, oh, like the biggest things were like work, right?
Allison: Or maybe something with little Maya, right? And so like he was my person that I could complain to and whatever, and he could complain to me and all that stuff. But it’s harder when the thing that is hard is the disease.
Justin: Yes.
Allison: And so then for some people, what they have said is like, you can’t always feel like you can say to your person how you’re feeling, because it might make them feel guilty, it might make them feel, you know, all the things that you’re struggling and the thing you’re struggling about is actually them.
Justin: Right.
Allison: So then you lose your, like, best friend, confidant, partner to talk to about the hardest things going on in your life. And that’s lonely, too.
Justin: That is incredibly lonely. Yeah, I can 100% relate to that. And that’s one of the super hard things that’s been, that I’ve had to face through all of this. And that’s one of the things that’s so fantastic now with Sarah having some improvement, is that she’s so much more available for when I need to talk about what’s hard in my life. Now, that being said, it is still hard to bring up, like, caregiving is hard because it’s her illness. That’s the root of that.
Justin: And that goes, I know we talked about like that dynamic between the sick person and the healthy person, and kind of feeling like there’s some, I don’t know what the right word is, but there’s some like lines that feel tricky to navigate, I guess, as far as that dynamic is tricky or feels like it can be. And again, I don’t know what the solution to that is. I know that one thing that has been really helpful for me going through all of this is having a therapist who like every week or every other week, like I can, I have an hour and I can talk about everything that’s hard.
Justin: And that time is for me. And so it’s getting better at using that to, I don’t know if offload is the right word, but like, I don’t hold that all inside. Which I think that is a place to feel seen, that is a place to feel understood. And if that’s something that’s something that I think everybody can benefit from, but I think certainly if you’re a caregiver, that’s something that can be a huge help, and I’m a huge advocate for that. And I also understand that that can be hard to do. It can be hard for, you know, schedule reasons, financial reasons.
Allison: Right. For a lot of things. Finding people. People have wait lists right now. Yeah.
Justin: Right. But yeah, it can be, it can make a big difference.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: For sure.
Allison: Do you ever feel like, just because I’ve heard from some of these coaching people I’m working with, that they say like, I have a therapist, but they don’t get it. I think they’re helpful. They don’t get it because they’re not a caregiver. So do you ever experience that, that you’re like, they get me and they help my story. But if they haven’t been a caregiver, there’s like a certain level. Do you know what I mean?
Justin: I know what you mean. And I think I’ve been fortunate. Over the years, I’ve gone through two therapists is all. And they’ve both, I don’t know if they fully understood what life was like as a caregiver, but they very much in how they were able to listen, like at least were able to validate the hardship that I was going through in a way that was helpful.
Allison: Good.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Do you, because Sarah listens to the podcast.
Justin: Yeah, she does.
Allison: Yeah. So is there ever when you were saying a little bit ago, like it’s hard that like the hard things that are going on in your life are related to her, related to caregiving for her. Is that ever tricky, like as she listens to an episode and hears you say like, this is hard or I’m tired or whatever, like is there anything like that that ever comes up? Like are there things that potentially you have said here that hadn’t come up in conversation or anything like that, that like it brings up anything there?
Justin: I don’t think that that’s come up. I try to, like I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t want her to be caught off guard with anything I’m saying here. So like, and we’ve over the years, I mean, we’ve had a lot of practice at talking about all of this hard stuff. And so, you know, I think that we’re both pretty open with each other at this point, as far as, you know, our struggles on both ends with our situation. So that’s, that’s helpful.
Justin: But I mean, I don’t know, sometimes it feels a little weird to be talking about how hard it is being the caregiver for her who is sick while she, and then, you know, sitting there while she’s listening to it. Yeah, but, no, I’m glad she does, because it gives her another avenue to hear my side of things and for her to then kind of, how can she support as best she can, you know, me and my end of things?
Allison: Yeah. I wonder about that, because I don’t, I think Sean listens most to almost all the episodes, but I’ve thought about that sometimes, because I think there’s certainly things, I would hope that there’s nothing I would say here that would be like surprising to him.
Justin: Right.
Allison: But I think that there might be ways that I say it that I haven’t said, or a new twist on it or something. I can’t remember what it, I think it was one of our early episodes where we talked about like how we do all the things.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: And I remember afterwards, he was like, do you want me to do more? I can do more. Do you want me to? I was like, thank you. Sure. I mean, that’s not really the point, but sure, you know.
Allison: So I think the part of it, of that loneliness too, is like, you know, finding a person, like you and I have found each other. We’re here, we can say the stuff, and we just happen to have other people listening. So caregivers, if you’re listening, you can always reach out to us, and many of you have, especially recently, and we just appreciate that and are here for you.
Allison: I do have a couple more coaching spots if that’s something people are interested in, but even if you just want it to be like, you just got to send a chat or an email or whatever, we do get it. And so if you’re having a moment where you know that nobody else would get whatever garbage you’re going through, Justin and I would probably get it. So feel free to reach out.
Justin: For sure.
Allison: What do you think… I’m just trying to think about our supporters. Because again, if a supporter, especially if a supporter has not been a caregiver, and so they can’t get it on the same level, I’m just trying to think about what are ways, without being able to really, really get it, that they can help someone, a caregiver, maybe feel less alone, less lonely in this situation.
Justin: Yeah, that’s a great question. I think being able to just listen, and maybe as part of that being upfront, that I know that I don’t understand all of the difficulties and all of the ins and outs of this caregiving role, but I do see that it’s hard and that you’re facing it, and that maybe it feels very alone, and I’m here to listen. I think that’s a helpful sentiment.
Allison: Yep. I’m thinking physically too, even times when, like you said, early on, when you were by yourself. And I think you’ve mentioned a number of times that first Christmas, that she was in bed, and you were just sitting there by yourself.
Allison: So your family was who could know that this was going to be a long-term situation. But think about things like that. If you know that, and if it’s not COVID time, and it’s safe and all that stuff, if you know that the caregiver is grounded because of something that’s going on with the person, can you stop by and say, I know you’re stuck here, but can I come over and just be with you?
Allison: Or would that be helpful for me to do that? I think so often I hear about, and I’ve certainly done this myself, about caregivers who are in a long-term hospital situation and just the crying that happens in the bathroom. Because it’s so lonely and you’re there, and the bathroom is the one place you can go, even though it’s a shared bathroom with other people. But it’s the one place where you can step away. And so thinking about that, if you know someone who’s a caregiver in a long-term hospitalization, and if they’re staying there, I’ve had people just say, I’ll just come to the coffee shop and just be there for 10 minutes. I’ll buy a coffee if you want to come down, or I’ll just give you a hug.
Allison: You know what I mean? Just little, tiny, physical things like that, too, can make a big difference. So it doesn’t have to be a three-hour visit, because that’s not usually whatever. But even I’ve had people, even when we’re here at home, have said, would you like it if I just came to your door and gave you a hug? It’s like, oh, yes. Sometimes no, or whatever. But the acknowledgement, I think, is so huge. So whether the hug happens or not, I think the acknowledgement is such a big piece. And that can happen even in these COVID days, that can happen via text or something.
Allison: I imagine that it’s really lonely that you guys are hunkered back down again right now. And I’m thinking about you. No need to respond.
Justin: Yeah, or I’ve even had a couple people reach out recently like, hey, I know things are crazy right now, and it’s probably not a good time, but when things are better, we should grab a beer or something like that. And just like one, when that can happen, that will be great. But two, like knowing that that’s something that is they’re thinking about, and they’re just the offer of it, like yeah, that makes a difference to feel like there’s someone out there who does want to spend time with me. Because you can get just stuck and not feel or see that that’s out there.
Allison: Yeah. Well, I love that in that situation, they also acknowledge like, hey, things are crazy right now. And so they didn’t make you have to say it like, I can’t go for a beer right now. They acknowledge that. The other thing that you were making me think of when you said, it’s just like, it’s nice to think that someone wants to spend time with me. I see a lot of people say, especially like introverts, I would like to be invited. I would also like to not go. But I would like to be invited.
Justin: Yes, yes.
Allison: And so I think the same thing for us as caregivers, whether we’re introverts or not, that it’s nice to have people say, like, you know, this might not work for your schedule or for their energy or for germs or whatever. But if you’re able, we’d love to have you there. And if you’re not, no big deal.
Justin: Right.
Allison: Just to like not have us be written off.
Justin:Right. Because if that invitation like that doesn’t come, then it can start to feel like we’ve been forgotten.
Allison: Yeah. And I think I will say that like, like we, like I said, we are back into hunker down mode. And I’m trying to like lean into it and be like, well, it’s winter anyway, and it’s really cold outside. And we’ll just hibernate and be cozy. But I think just because we’ve done it so much.
Justin: Well, and there’s a difference between like, yes, that all sounds nice and choosing to do that or the because it sounds cozy and like, kind of using that as a way to try to make something out of a horrible situation.
Allison: Right, right. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. So anyway, I think just like, I love your thing about like, the person says like, at the other end of this, I’d really like to get a beer.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: You know, we had a friend, it was maybe like three weeks ago. So it was before this last surge, and she texted a bunch of us and said, I would love, love, love, love, as a New Year’s gathering. At some point, I would love to be without you all. And if that means inside and masked, or outside around a bonfire, whatever it is, let’s do it. Well, it was going to be scheduled for last weekend. And so, of course, by last weekend, I was like, yeah, no.
Allison: I was like, I’m sorry, but we could do a Zoom, or we could like not go. And they were all like, yep, absolutely no problem. Zoom it is. You know, and so again, I think that that makes me feel less lonely when the people in my life, they adjust.
Justin: Yes.
Allison: You know? And so it’s not just like, oh, Breiningers are out. Well, we’ll just have a fun time without them. Which certainly that has to happen sometimes. But that they’re like, absolutely, no problem. Understand completely. Let’s do a Zoom. So that we could still, you know, be part of the fun and all of that. You know? So, yeah, I think there’s a lot of loneliness happening right now worldwide.
Justin: Right.
Allison: And I think that as we’ve talked about with so many things like fatigue and anxiety and all of that, that we caregivers walked in already with a heap of it.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Allison: You know? Like we walked in lonely. And now it’s exacerbated. And so, you know, thinking about those, like making those online connections, which we’ve said can be good or bad, right? But reaching out and just building the connections with other people, reaching out to us, you know, reaching out to others, and then supporters taking time to, you know, reach some kind of olive branch, you know, some sort of like, are you over there? I’m thinking of you. Some follower who loves the podcast, so I would guess she’s listening, sent us, our family, the other day boxes of like rock painting kits.
Justin: Oh, cool.
Allison: Because she loves, loves, loves. She once made me a negative space rock that she painted, like treasure it.
Justin: Oh, wow.
Allison: But she paints rocks and then like leaves them around the neighborhood. Or she said, now that it’s cold, she like leaves them at her door for like the delivery people or when she goes through the drive through at Starbucks. And so we’ll just, I haven’t heard from her for a long time and all of a sudden, in the mail, all these like rock painting kits. And she said, I just thought your family might enjoy this during this time.
Justin: Wow.
Allison: So just things like that, just to be like thinking of you. I realize that you exist. I remember that you exist out there, which I think sometimes can feel like hard during this time when we’re not seeing people.
Justin: Right. One other thing I wanted to bring up kind of as part of this conversation is, so we’ve talked about loneliness, and something else that kind of has come to mind with all of that is also depression.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And I’m not saying that feeling lonely means you’re depressed, and I’m not saying that depression is just loneliness.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: But there are certainly strong undercurrents of feeling alone that is part of depression, and depression is something that I’ve been living with for years and years and years, and it’s certainly something that caregiving has not helped.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: And it’s real hard. And so if you think that you’re going down in that direction, one, it’s no fault of your own. Mental health is health. It’s part of us as having bodies that sometimes they don’t work. And so there is help, and if you’re able to talk to a therapist about it, if you’re able to talk to your doctor, there’s medications that can help. There’s no shame in needing to take medication for things like anxiety, for things like depression.
Allison: Yes.
Justin: And so I just kind of want to put that out there, that statistically caregivers face increased rates of depression, which boy, that sure sucks. But again, if you’re feeling that way, if you’re feeling depressed as part of caregiving, you’re not alone in that either. I’m there, lots of other people are there. Yeah, so I just wanted to throw that out there as well.
Allison: Yes. And like so many said things we’ve said, some of us walked into our caregiving, I think you and I both struggled with some anxiety and depression before we even became caregivers. So for some of us, it’s part of our makeup, and therefore then it’s exacerbated by our life circumstances. Other people, it is circumstantial, right? Like all that they’re going through as caregivers has exacerbated. And now a pandemic, right?
Allison: And so there’s a lot of reasons that people might be feeling anxious and depressed right now. Do you have any, obviously you’re not a clinician, but do you know, any thoughts about like, there’s like we said, life is hard right now. I said earlier, it’s January, but I guess January in your part of the woods isn’t quite as terrible as January in Minnesota, but it’s January and it’s pretty dark, super cold, COVID, all the things, right?
Allison: So a lot of reasons to feel sad, depressed and lonely. What, how might a person know, like I’m just feeling lonely and sad because the world is hard, versus I should really talk to somebody because maybe this is something big, or maybe this is depression. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Justin: Boy, that’s a good question. I would probably err on the side of not waiting too long.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: I think that, you know, if you start, if you’re noticing significant changes around, and again, I’m not a clinician or anything, but like your motivation drops, you’re just like, days you feel numb, you just don’t feel like doing anything. Like those are all, I know for me, those are all signs that like depression is getting worse.
Allison: Yeah.
Justin: So like if you’re noticing those shifts, that might be something to talk to someone about.
Allison: Yeah, I’ve heard that it’s like, if it’s starting to impact your daily life rate, it’s one thing to be like, oh man, this is rough. But if it’s impacting your work or your home or your, you know, this or that, and like you said, like we are not clinicians, neither of us. And so, but I think even if it is a circumstantial thing, there’s help for that, right?
Justin: Yes.
Allison: And so this is a really hard time that we’re all living through as a world, and if you’re a caregiver, even more so. And so there’s no harm in talking to your GP or your therapist to say like, here’s how I’m feeling, what do you think? Like the people who have the actual background and degrees, not us, to figure out like, is there something that could help make this time more gentle?
Allison: You know, I keep thinking last time you helped me think of the word gentle for myself. And so, you know, how can we make this time feel a little easier, a little more gentle? And that doesn’t necessarily mean that something, you know, the person might have something for their whole life. Maybe it’s just the season. But either way, like, there’s help. And so, yes, reach out. We both, you know, you and I both are big proponents of that. And therapy and medication and all things. So, yeah.
Justin: And that’s like, I know that we’re constantly being told that we need to practice self-care, but I think, like, looking out for our own mental health is a big part of that, that I think we need to, yeah, do what we can there.
Allison: Yes, so true. Yeah, because self-care, that’s like one of the best versions of self-care.
Justin: I think so.
Allison: Right? It’s not the trip to Tahiti. Although, I would take that as well. But, you know, it’s like finding the therapist is talking about that. It’s thinking about medication. Like, that’s huge self-care. Because some of those other little pieces that we’ve talked about, you know, we talked about hobbies, and we did all these different things. Like, sometimes you can’t access those things until you are able to get to a place where you can. And so that’s tricky.
Allison: I know that, like, I have recently switched the meds, and it’s just been a really rough week.
Justin: That can be hard, yeah.
Allison: And then it’s always this, like, is it because I switched the meds? Is it because it’s January? It’s because of COVID? Yes, all of it. The answer is yes. So I find myself just, like, frustrated with, like you said, sometimes our bodies just don’t work, and sometimes I think they’re working like an overdrive. You know, for me, it’s more anxiety, and so I think it’s more like my body is like, I think saber-tooth tigers are everywhere or something. I don’t know what it thinks, but it like feels like it’s an overdrive, and that just makes doing some of those easier self-care things harder when you just feel like, I can’t. I can’t do it. So all that to be said, here we are, sounding like we got our stuff together.
Justin: We don’t.
Allison: We don’t. I mean, we do, and we’re working on it. We’re working on our stuff. But I don’t ever want it to sound like you and I are just over here, living these carefree, happy lives. I think with the amount of times that we say the word hard in each episode, probably people know that. But that a lot of intentional work is being done on both of our parts to support our mental health through all the things we’re going through.
Allison: So as just a random quick aside, I want to mention that someone recently speaking of mental health said that they had heard me, I got to speak on a Cafeteria Christian podcast, and I mentioned that sometimes caregivers are people who are taking care of someone who is struggling with their mental health. And someone reached out and said, I didn’t realize that I was, I didn’t think I got to call myself a caregiver because my husband isn’t physically sick, but struggles, like is bed bound essentially with mental health struggles, but said, I didn’t even know if I could look at your website because I didn’t know if I qualified as a caregiver. And so I just want to take this minute while we’re talking about mental health to like loud and clear say that absolutely, absolutely that if you are caring for a person who is struggling with mental health or with addiction, that though you are still a caregiver, so much so.
Allison: And I’m sorry that those things are even more in the negative space. And that those things are surrounded by a stigma and are sometimes, it’s easier for me to say to someone, Sean got a new cancer diagnosis, than to say, you know, Sean just spent a night in the mental health hospital. Like, I don’t talk about that that much.
Allison: And it’s because that’s a harder thing to bring out into the open. But those are even harder caregiving days than a cancer diagnosis because of that, because of the loneliness involved in that and in the stigma of like, oh, can I talk about this? Or I think about I’ve had caregivers share that they, their person doesn’t want anyone to know that they’re sick. So they can’t talk about it at all. I think about the loneliness involved in that, of going through this hard thing and not being able to tell anyone. That’s huge.
Allison: And so just want to shout out that like, even though you and I often talk about the physical ailments that our spouses walk through life with, that caregiving goes so much beyond that.
Justin: Yes.
Allison: And that, yes, you are a caregiver if you’re caring for anyone who’s struggling with anything. So just a little side note there.
Justin: No, thanks for bringing that up. That’s important.
Allison: Okay. We end with a big sigh. I guess is there, I mean, we don’t need to bright side, but if there was one, it would be that if you’re feeling lonely, you’re not by yourself. You’re not on your own. So we’re all lonely together. It sounds a little like an oxymoron, but we are. And so reach out to us if you’re feeling alone. Reach out to another caregiver.
Allison: If you’re a supporter, reach out to somebody and just offer a hug or a note or like, I see you or, you know, after this is all over, I’d love to hang out. Or do you want to hang out on the phone? And don’t forget to invite people and then let them give them an out to not go, but continue to invite them.
Justin: Yes.
Allison: Yeah. Okay.
Justin: All right.
Allison: Well, here’s to a gentler, hopefully week.
Justin: I think I hope so.
Allison: For both of us and everyone listening. Let’s hope we can just one day. We’re just doing this January thing one day at a time.
Justin: We’re halfway through.
Allison: Are we? We are. We are.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Okay, that’s something.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: Although I always say February is the worst, but maybe this year January is the worst, and February will be something. We’ll see.
Justin: Yeah.
Allison: All right. Thanks for talking about this hard topic with me.
Justin: It’s been good.
Allison: Yeah. We’ll see you later.
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